Antarctic Space Nazis Across the Multiverse

[edk926]

I've seen enough Ancient Aliens to know everything said here is true.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by edk926

I've seen enough Ancient Aliens to know everything said here is true.

Naturally. Ken Hite always tells the truth, even when he lies. It's a bisociation thing.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Which brings me to a question. Does anyone know if there are significant differences in terms of resource requirements or the need for skilled TL7 labour in manufacturing 9x19mm Parabellum ammunition, 7.92x33mm Kurtz or 7.92x57mm Mauser?

No fundamental ones. They all need the same basic materials, types of processing, chemistry and metallurgy, machine tools, skilled labour, testing facilities, storage and distribution.

The rifle rounds take more materials, and the GURPS weight per shot and cost per shot give you a rough approximation of that.

[dcarson]

S. M. Stirling in his Islands books argues that Victorian level tech can be maintained by a small city population if you can get the raw materials from less tech locals. The examples seem reasonable.

[a humble lich]

I'd think they would avoid using SMGs like the Sten if ammunition is difficult to come by, the Mauser is more economical. Also, if the TL 3 opponents are armored, pistol caliber rounds might have difficulty doing enough damage. Another weapon to consider are flamethrowers, if the Nazis have a supply of hydrocarbons the ammo is easy to make, and they have a terror effect as well.

As far as maintaining an advanced civilization, there are many high tech advancements that do not require any raw materials to maintain. Much of TL 7 medicine would still be available. Many drugs might be difficult to manufacture, but knowledge of anatomy, surgical techniques, and the germ theory of disease require no real industrial base. Just knowing that it is important to keep operating rooms clean would be important. And I'd assume that the Antarctic Space Nazis would be masters of phrenology---their phrenology could easily be twice as accurate as it was in the 1940s. (Two times zero is still zero, right?)

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by dcarson

S. M. Stirling in his Islands books argues that Victorian level tech can be maintained by a small city population if you can get the raw materials from less tech locals. The examples seem reasonable.

Indeed.

My wacky Nazis, of course, absolutely refuse to give up smokeless powder. Then again, by now they'll number in the tens of thousands and have slaves in the hundreds of thousands, so I don't find it implausible that they could maintain their TL7 small arms and make enough ammo for them to allow their most important formations to have what weapons they need.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by johndallman

No fundamental ones. They all need the same basic materials, types of processing, chemistry and metallurgy, machine tools, skilled labour, testing facilities, storage and distribution.

The rifle rounds take more materials, and the GURPS weight per shot and cost per shot give you a rough approximation of that.

Very good.

So it's more probable that any economical ammunition used for self-defence by farmers and slave overseers would be black powder. Maybe a version of the Mauser was made in a suitable caliber.

In any case, the crew of a world-scouting zeppelin would be an elite unit of high importance to the Antaractic Space Nazis and consequently carrying the most advanced weaponry they could give them. Which, even two generations into the New Reich, is most likely WWII vintage.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Icelander

So it's more probable that any economical ammunition used for self-defence by farmers and slave overseers would be black powder. Maybe a version of the Mauser was made in a suitable caliber.

A vigorously simplified Mauser Model 1871 would suit.

You don't want the slaves to be able to acquire anything good by mobbing their overseers, so double-barrel smoothbore shotguns are an alternative, and have the advantage of not needing so much brass for cartridge cases.

There will probably also be a small rifle round in use for training and small game hunting.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by johndallman

A vigorously simplified Mauser Model 1871 would suit.

Indeed so.

I don't have a clear idea of the relative opportunity costs involved, but it strikes me that maintaining a supply of ammunition is a larger problem than making the firearms themselves, as those can last a couple of generations easily enough. Not to mention that with carefully looted industry meant to bootstrap a whole new society, it's probable that machining work can be done faster than new citizens can be bred, so there's no need to equip any settler with a 'cheap' firearm, as such, though an economical design that makes use of black powder ammo makes sense.

As such, perhaps a version of the Gewehr 1871/84 might be the homesteader weapon of choice. It would certainly be reassuring to the citizens of the New Reich to have ten rounds ready to hand, instead of just one.

Originally Posted by johndallman

You don't want the slaves to be able to acquire anything good by mobbing their overseers, so double-barrel smoothbore shotguns are an alternative, and have the advantage of not needing so much brass for cartridge cases.

Well, as it happens, only those slaves who require intelligence and initiative will have any possibility of revolt, as any kept merely as strong bodies will be... managed with other methods.

As a result, the fear of a massive slave revolt is not severe. Of course, for any sane leadership, the risks of the methods used to secure a near-infinite supply of obedient slaves and legions of stormtroopers with absolute Kadaverhorsamkeit would be considered to far outweigh the benefits, but, well, they are Nazis.

Originally Posted by johndallman

There will probably also be a small rifle round in use for training and small game hunting.

Might reloading 7.92x57mm Mauser cartridges with black powder be suitable for that role?

That way, training and hunting weapons can be a more or less exact copy of the Karabiner 98k and even usable with real military ammunition in the event settlers need to defend the Last Redoubt at any point.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by dcarson

S. M. Stirling in his Islands books argues that Victorian level tech can be maintained by a small city population if you can get the raw materials from less tech locals. The examples seem reasonable.

Stories like that since Mark Twain show a pattern: the more the author knows about engineering, and the more experts he talks to, and the more research they put into the problem, the more people he or she decides are needed to achieve a lower final technology. So the Connecticut Yankee builds 1880s technologies in Migration Era Europe, but 20,000 Grantvillers just about build mid-19th-century technology in 17th-century Germany after hooking into the global trade network.

This would be a great excuse to postulate strange gaps in their knowledge: even if the Nazis had not hated actual experts (the boss preferred learned-sounding cranks), a few hundred or thousand refugees just can't bring and sustain the knowledge of the 1930s with them. So yeah, probably OK field medicine and machining, but they may be flat earthers or believe that Untermenschen cause the spontaneous generation of bacteria.