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Old 11-12-2018, 04:34 PM   #31
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I don't understand how this can be since you can't throw a weapon after moving more than 2 on that same turn.
Where is this restriction written? I can't seem to find it anywhere.
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Old 11-12-2018, 07:51 PM   #32
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)

You are right; I was mixing my metaphors on that one. I can't recall which game I was thinking of where that restriction applied...

Anyway, that does open up some possibilities for a thrown barrage before getting engaged, but it will depend on winning initiative at just the right moment, and perhaps a cooperative foe who isn't planing ahead.
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Old 11-12-2018, 11:14 PM   #33
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)

Some of the other peculiar weapons also still want house rules to not have munchkin potential. Lasso, bola and whip can also be used by a MNSH to knock down and immobilize the victim for a follow-up obliteration by sha-ken.

i.e. Entangling someone with a lasso, bola or whip only takes a to-hit roll (at missile range penalties for the lasso), and no saving roll, and the result is falling down and not being able to get up the next turn, at least. If MNSH can instantly ready & throw 12 sha-ken next turn after advancing 5-6 hexes... and again the next turn as the opponent stands up.... and again the next turn when the opponent would get some hope of attacking if he weren't dead already.

IMO they should all give the target a DX saving roll to avoid being entangled on a hit, and maybe also a ST saving roll to avoid falling down.
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Old 11-13-2018, 04:32 AM   #34
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Default Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Some of the other peculiar weapons also still want house rules to not have munchkin potential. Lasso, bola and whip can also be used by a MNSH to knock down and immobilize the victim for a follow-up obliteration by sha-ken.

i.e. Entangling someone with a lasso, bola or whip only takes a to-hit roll (at missile range penalties for the lasso), and no saving roll, and the result is falling down and not being able to get up the next turn, at least. If MNSH can instantly ready & throw 12 sha-ken next turn after advancing 5-6 hexes... and again the next turn as the opponent stands up.... and again the next turn when the opponent would get some hope of attacking if he weren't dead already.
I had sworn to myself I wouldn't post anything more about MNSHs, but this is so abominable I can't help myself. I'm not sure I have ever read the lasso rules until now. You are right.

Imagine: You walk into the Melee arena to see a nightmare: a non-shrewd 32pt MNSH stands at the far side, with a lasso ready (two bags of sha-ken as secondary). The nature of this lasso attack (thrown? hand weapon? missile weapon?) is unclear, so we'll give MNSH no benefits of any doubts. Initiative. Do what you like, says MNSH. I don't mind. MNSH stands still, smiling. It doesn't matter where you move, MNSH's lasso can reach you with its 15 range. MNSH acts before you possibly can because his DX is 20 and yours is less (unless you're a MNSH too). You dodge, but from across the arena MNSH effortlessly floats the lasso around your dodging body (4d/adjDX18 = 90% success). "How is this happening to me?? What sorcery is this??" you wonder, as you immediately fall to the ground. "This little &*(&! only has 4 ST!".

Oh, man!
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Old 11-13-2018, 10:52 AM   #35
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)

Lasso requires ST 8. It is pure madness that it gets missile weapon range modifiers, but at least it remains out of the hands of the MNSH.

Also, there is a pretty simple source of kryptonite for the MNSH: 4 points of armor renders the sha ken barrage effectively pointless; there is some chance of a double or triple damage blow being landed, but it is a rare outcome adn even that is not very likely to hurt you. So, leather armor and a large shield and you are all good.

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Old 11-13-2018, 11:26 AM   #36
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Lasso requires ST 8. It is pure madness that it gets missile weapon range modifiers, but at least it remains out of the hands of the MNSH.

Also, there is a pretty simple source of kryptonite for the MNSH: 4 points of armor renders the sha ken barrage effectively pointless; there is some chance of a double or triple damage blow being landed, but it is a rare outcome adn even that is not very likely to hurt you. So, leather armor and a large shield and you are all good.
Oh, that's true - all the killer trippers (lasso, whip, bola) require ST 8. Not that that doesn't make them ultra-annoying when overused by ST 8+ figures.

Hmm, though by the RAW, can't a MNSH just a lasso, but just take (and not mind much) a -4 DX penalty for inadequate ST?


As for MNSH kryptonite, yes, my MNSH killer above already demonstrated that (chainmail + toughness), but as RobW mentioned, the main point is not arguing that there is nothing that can kill a MNSH. The main point is that high DX + sha-ken barrages do way more damage than they should, to the point that they become extremely deadly in ways that don't make much sense.

Same with having everyone start combat with a ready lasso because they can lasso the heck out of their opponents (whose stats don't matter - they drop when hit and take an extra turn in the dirt before getting up), and have time to draw weapons even if they don't have quick-draw and then move up and hack at their opponents still on the ground due to lasso. The point isn't that we can't find something that can beat that. The point is that it's annoyingly overpowered, abusable, shouldn't be that way, and in addition, wipes out many conventional opponents who should not be wiped out so easily by a bit of rope.
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:42 AM   #37
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)

There are some funny things like this in the nooks and crannies of the game, but I honestly think they are 'white room' problems, not real gaming table problems. I seriously doubt a PC designed around these strategies would live very long, or be very fun to play. In any case, in 40 years of playing TFT I've never seen someone show up at the table with this sort of character.
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:43 AM   #38
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Default Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
In any case, in 40 years of playing TFT I've never seen someone show up at the table with this sort of character.
No cowboys ever?

Zoro, sort of
ST 9, DX 12, IQ 11, MA 10
Javelin(1d-1), Whip(in off-hand)
Pole Weapons(2), Whip(1), Weapon Expertise-PW(3), other stuff

Uses whip to drop foe to the ground, then follows up with a 3d Shrewd charge.
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:56 AM   #39
Terquem
 
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Default Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)

How is he supposed to draw a flashy letter Z with that thing?
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Old 11-13-2018, 12:57 PM   #40
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)

Love your whip/javelin zoro!

I've had players take a lasso or whatever for fun, but they were all 'normal' sorts of PCs with a balanced set of abilities and stats rather than a monster engineered around delivering the perfect attack at range 10 hexes or whatever. I think the game doesn't really have any balance problems for these sorts of 'real world' PCs
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