Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-24-2022, 01:10 PM   #41
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Vacc Suits

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Do you know what title the issue ran under? I didn't buy many of the third series, but it's possible I might have that one.
Tech and Toys IV or issue 3/96. You will also want the 3/85 Pyramid because it adds in some TL 6-9 items as well.



Here is a sample suit for you:

TL 9 Improved Kevlar, flexible armor - Optimized fabric.

DR: 2
Weight: 2.7 lbs
Cost $220 final price (If styled like fashionable fabrics, the CF goes up by +4)

The cost to seal the suit (sealed advantage) is an extra $5 per square foot of armor, which raised the price by a little over an extra $100. ($5 x 21.35 sq ft).

The following options are available per the article:
Sealed
Waste-Relief System
Infrared Cloaking
Biomedical Sensors
Near Miss Indicator
Psionic Mind Shield
Personal Radar/Ladar Detector
Trauma Maintenance
Microbot Arteries
Climate Control
Desert Environment System (recycles water)
Extreme Climate Control
Air Supply
Life-Support System (LSS)
Extended Life-Support System (ELSS)
Power Pack

Please note too, that you can customize the suits by "size" in the sense that the rules give you ways to determine how bigger people will have a larger surface area, while smaller people will have a smaller surface area.

The material Improved Kevlar is in issue 3/85 - not 3/96. Me, I purchased all three issues for all of the tech level materials.

;)

Now, had you wanted a TL 9 Titanium Rigid plate style suit? It would be DR 3, weigh 10 lbs, and cost $1,300 before adding the vacuum sealed option (or roughly $100).

ADDENDA: almost forgot, you can add elements to the helmet like HUD, Radio communicators etc.

PS - if you want all three articles for building your own armor from TL 0 on up to Ultra-tech levels, you will also want issue 3/52. This will give you all of the materials possible for armor construction for all tech levels in GURPS 4th edition.

Last edited by hal; 01-24-2022 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Addenda
hal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 01:28 PM   #42
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: Vacc Suits

That seems almost absurdly cheap. The TL7 suit in the Basic Set is $2 million (which is apparently less expensive than real space suits have been!) and the TL9 ones based on mechanical compression are around $10,000. I wonder what the difference in assumptions is?
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 01:28 PM   #43
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Vacc Suits

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
How up to date is your Pyramid Library? David provided rules for creating armor, but also sort of included rules for creating vacc suits. What you're looking for is the Oct 2016 issue of Eidetic Memory Ultra-Tech Armor Design by David L. Pulver It has rules for Life Support and vacuum support aspects of either rigid or flexible armors. There is even an extended life support system should you feel that some of the suits require extended periods of time on the surface of Mars. Let me know if you want me to try and design a Mars suit using those rules and email it to you. You have my private email I presume. If not, simply click on my name at the Forums and send me an email that way. I've already got a spreadsheet that lets me design armor for any given tech level (I picked up all three articles and created the spreadsheet such it will handle all TLs in GURPS).
I forget if it addresses this, but if you want to use this to create vacuum suits that don't provide DR, I'd say building DR 0.5 armor would suffice. That's DR 0.5 against crushing - a bioplas vacuum suit would actually provide a bit of protection against pi and burn (ditto for kevlar vs pi and cut). Of course, even if the vacuum suits aren't meant for combat, designing them with higher DR than this can be a worthwhile endeavor, simply because that means they are difficult to compromise in an accident.
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 01:41 PM   #44
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Vacc Suits

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
That seems almost absurdly cheap. The TL7 suit in the Basic Set is $2 million (which is apparently less expensive than real space suits have been!) and the TL9 ones based on mechanical compression are around $10,000. I wonder what the difference in assumptions is?
Bear in mind, that I did not add the costs involved for the "options".

For instance - Sealed adds an additional $214. Waste relief adds another $500. Biosensors add another $200. Trauma Maintenance adds another $2,000. Climate control adds another $50. LSS adds another $1,000 (but includes some of the options listed above). Large Air Tank adds $200.

So call it a fat $4,200 additional cost for an actual Vacc Suit in its entirety - not including any accessories you want in the helmet.

;)
hal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 01:46 PM   #45
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Vacc Suits

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
That seems almost absurdly cheap. The TL7 suit in the Basic Set is $2 million (which is apparently less expensive than real space suits have been!) and the TL9 ones based on mechanical compression are around $10,000. I wonder what the difference in assumptions is?
That 2 million would be for an Apollo program "moon suit" which is a hand-built prototype designed at a very low state of the art (a _lot_ of gueswork). It doesn't really have anything to do with a msture design 2 TLs levels higher that's mass produced.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 01:48 PM   #46
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Vacc Suits

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
That seems almost absurdly cheap. The TL7 suit in the Basic Set is $2 million (which is apparently less expensive than real space suits have been!) and the TL9 ones based on mechanical compression are around $10,000. I wonder what the difference in assumptions is?
The article treats Vacuum Support as a trivial aspect automatically granted to a sealed suit with a life-support pack. That's definitely inaccurate at TL 8, at least.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 02:16 PM   #47
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Vacc Suits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
The article treats Vacuum Support as a trivial aspect automatically granted to a sealed suit with a life-support pack. That's definitely inaccurate at TL 8, at least.
Everything I have mentioned at this point, is based upon TL 9 pricing for the materials and for the accessories. The sealed suit aspect may not be a realistic price - and I seem to recall elsewhere that it is $10 per square feet instead of $5 - but that's in the same order of magnitude for pricing.

I can well understand your skepticism for pricing of suits - according to THIS article, NASA has only FOUR functional extra-vehicular space suits delivered from the 1970's left.

The question is however, whether or not such suit design will have improved by the time of the next 50 or so years (not sure when your campaign timeline is set to). Elon Musk has offered to supply new suits for NASA, but this sets the parameters of the suits...

Musk’s company has developed and made flight suits for astronauts who launch into orbit in SpaceX’s Crew Dragon spacecraft. The flight suits are primarily designed to protect the astronauts in case of a fire inside of the spacecraft, or if the cabin depressurizes. Building spacesuits would be a more complex and challenging endeavor, given the need to survive outside of a spacecraft in the harsh environment of space

At a guess, I'd say that what is missing are the PLSS (Powered Life Support System) packs. GURPS sets the power requirement at two C cell batteries at TL 9.

Oddly enough, that Article in 3/96 does provide background on radiation protection factors if the reader so desires. Also, there is NOTHING to keep a GM such as William from simply upping the prices he disagrees with as far as Vacuum sealing goes. In the end? I think that he'd be well served to use those rules to design his own for his campaign - assuming he wants to spend the money on two Pyramid articles and spend the time.

Not too long ago, I created a "Duster" style coat for use in my TL 9 cyberpunk campaign and it was definitely PRICEY for someone who can't afford to pay close to $19,000 for a piece of armor. On the other hand, it was stylishly effective and designed to look like normal clothing - which was part of the cost (remember, styling adds a +4 CF to the whole thing!). Was that included in GURPS ULTRA-TECH? Nope. But it was an Arasaka Special for my Chrome City campaign.

If this is Mars as it is currently today, as opposed to a Terraformed Mars - then I suspect this thing needs more Armor for radiation protection (where thickness of material matters, and DR is directly related to the thickness of the material used) along with other factors. But at TL 9, the whole package adds about $4,200 for life support, extreme environmental control, and a few other odds and ends. It does NOT include computers being attached for any functions that computers may be used for (internal diagnostics etc) nor does it include things like radios, batteries, etc. But the fun part is, much of what was in the article for 3/95 pointed directly to ULTRA-TECH for the accessories, which means that you can plunder ULTRA-TECH for more ideas of things that can go into this. As for me? I know what it is like to wear a catheter - and trust me, it is NOT fun. You couldn't get me to wear a suit that handles body wastes if you PAID me to. Those poor folks are going to have to get used to such things - and one byproduct of a catheter that is badly installed, is permanent scar tissue forming in your bladder that you will never be able to get away from for the rest of our life (barring any further advances in medicine in that area).
hal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 02:48 PM   #48
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Vacc Suits

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
Everything I have mentioned at this point, is based upon TL 9 pricing for the materials and for the accessories. The sealed suit aspect may not be a realistic price - and I seem to recall elsewhere that it is $10 per square feet instead of $5 - but that's in the same order of magnitude for pricing.
You're missing the key focal point of my post: Sealed and Vacuum Support are in reality quite separate things. In that design system, Vacuum Support is given for free to any suit with Sealed and a life support pack. In reality, Vacuum Support can be had by an non-sealed suit! But it isn't trivial whether or not you're Sealed. (Actually it might be harder if you are Sealed.)
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 03:16 PM   #49
cptbutton
 
cptbutton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Default Re: Vacc Suits

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
The rescue balls are a good idea; I'll have to see if UT has stats. And the access points for air are an even better one.
TL8 Rescue Balls are described in GURPS Traveller core book, page 112 and GURPS Traveller Interstellar Wars page 167.
__________________
--
Burma!
cptbutton is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 04:03 PM   #50
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: Vacc Suits

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptbutton View Post
TL8 Rescue Balls are described in GURPS Traveller core book, page 112 and GURPS Traveller Interstellar Wars page 167.
It turns out that Ultra-Tech has them as well. See page 77.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
pavonis portal, social engineering

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.