05-10-2021, 12:28 PM | #21 |
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: Lawful counterpart to Sidhe
It's been a while since I've read Poul Anderson's _Three Hearts and Three Lions_, but in their confrontation with Fairy, it was said that humans were on the side of Law, except for some renegades and witches that fought with Chaos.
The Fey were definitely on the side of Chaos. I'm not saying I agreed with that demarcation, but it worked for the story. It was man's belief in their religion and their iron that made the lands difficult for the fey.
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05-10-2021, 01:30 PM | #22 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: MO, U.S.A.
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Re: Lawful counterpart to Sidhe
Hrnmmm, Perhaps some sort of angelic beings for law, and some sort of spider like beings for chaos....
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05-10-2021, 03:25 PM | #23 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Lawful counterpart to Sidhe
If it's inspired by Moorcock, then Law shouldn't be closely tied to Good, nor Chaos tied to Evil.
D&D had its heart in the right place defining those two axes of alignment, but our own culture skews those axes, so it's harder to keep the two concepts from entangling. In a game where it's just the Law-Chaos axis, I think it'd be wise to avoid -- or actively subvert -- assumptions about the nature of the Lawful and Chaotic beings. Sidhe work better than spiders in this regard, as while most players will regard them with caution and mistrust, they're not assumed evil. You'd like the same to be true of the Lawful beings -- something not automatically assumed to be good. Yes, you can make your angels fearful and destructive, but that's work that the game has to do just to overcome that assumption. Perhaps there's some other form to start with that doesn't absorb that work, but can just get straight into the intended game. Or else make that subversion a feature and go all in on it -- but then the game becomes Lawful Evil vs Chaotic Good, not just Law vs Chaos with Good/Evil irrelevant to the distinction. it might be better to mix demons in with the angels, and just have supernatural vs. natural. (Instead of angels, you might want something more like Jotun or Titans, supernatural creations of earlier phases of cosmology.) That pushes the Sidhe into the nature spirit end of things. But if they represent Chaos, then you wind up with another built-in contradiction -- in most mythologies, Order is associated with the creation of the world, often enough out of primal Chaos. But you might invert that, and have the world and life as the bit of creation that got out of hand and is threatening stability of the Order. But the Lawful creatures can't just exterminate life, because eliminating it entirely would be damaging the perfect orderly eternal vision. |
05-10-2021, 05:18 PM | #24 | |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: Lawful counterpart to Sidhe
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05-10-2021, 05:36 PM | #25 | |
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Re: Lawful counterpart to Sidhe
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If I'm not mistaken, instead of simple "good vs evil" they had "civilization vs wilderness". Civilization is safe and nurturing, where humans can thrive, thus it's "good". Wilderness is the opposite, a dangerous place where even the best men can easily die. Witches are considered powerful because they can live alone in the wilderness. |
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05-10-2021, 05:59 PM | #26 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama
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Re: Lawful counterpart to Sidhe
many ancient cultures/religions used chaos vs order instead of good vs evil.
Chaos is sometimes the origin of everything, and order is the later came from chaos and the state where humans can live. Civilization keep chaos at bay and wilderness is nearer to chaos. Like the titans vs the Olympians, the Egyptians, mithraism and I think many other religions draw on the chaos of origin and end of everything and civilization as a stable state. That is why I think the Romans and their civilized ways is a very good candidate as order vs the Sidhe chaos. It mirror the cultural conflict between celts and romans but can go deeper into the mystic and mythological aspect easily. |
05-10-2021, 06:12 PM | #27 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: traveller
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Re: Lawful counterpart to Sidhe
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Law: Halflings, Treants, Unicorns, Pegasi, Hippogriffs, Law or Neutral: Elves, Rocs, Dwarves/Gnomes, Centaurs. Neutral: Nixies, Pixies, Dryads, Griffons, Animals, Wyverns, Hydrae, Purple Worms, Sea Monsters. Neutral or Chaos: Orcs, Ogres, Dragons, Chimeras, MInotaurs, Giants. Chaos: Goblins/Kobolds, Hobgoblins/Gnolls, Trolls, Wights, Wraiths, Ghouls, Mummies, Spectres, Vampires, Medusae, Manticores, Gargoyles, Gorgons. Any: Men, Lycanthropes. |
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05-10-2021, 06:18 PM | #28 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Lawful counterpart to Sidhe
D&D's law versus chaos was more like Poul Andersen than Moorcock before it went 8 way. "Chaos" was just a euphemism for "evil".
Last edited by David Johnston2; 05-10-2021 at 06:27 PM. |
05-10-2021, 07:17 PM | #29 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Lawful counterpart to Sidhe
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05-10-2021, 09:06 PM | #30 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Lawful counterpart to Sidhe
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If you still want the Law = Good, Chaos = Evil dichotomy, take a look at the Warhammer setting. It's not quite right for Moorcock-inspired, but I think it does the best job of any fantasy RPG setting at getting the desperate, vicious fight between Manichean Good and Manichean Evil right. Some of the the Chaos gods and their servitors are really creepy. Alternately, consider having the Sidhe as forces of Law (emphasis on courtliness, order, and careful adherence to oaths and vows) and literal or figurative "amorphous evil" for Chaos, where Chaos is represented by big slimy blob-like critters with too many eyes, tentacles, and mouths. You might also consider "Law" to be the embodied forces of the existing social order (at least the good parts) and "Chaos" to be the embodied forces of unregulated social change (at least the bad parts). Most importantly, consider WHY you want forces of Absolute Law/Chaos to be present in the campaign. What do they represent? What does the choice to be servants of Law/Chaos get your PCs? What happens when you get a player who wants to play an albino swordsman with a magic sword which eats souls? |
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Tags |
advice, chaos, law, sidhe |
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