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Old 11-05-2015, 02:53 AM   #11
Wavefunction
 
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Default Re: Creating a low point ST-based ranged fighter

Firstly, it's a lot harder to make a ranged fighter on 10% of total points with a meaningful contribution to combat before guns are invented, than a melee fighter. A character I'm playing at the moment has 8 points in combat skills and is pretty effective thanks to a Large Shield, a Long Knife, and very high quality armour, both weapon skills are Easy, and I can All-Out against most mooks, against those for whom I can't All-Out I can use Telegraphic Attacks and just hope to score a few hits, or I can make sure I'm positioned to the side or behind someone a teammate is fighting to make it more viable, that also makes my shield slams more likely to land, knock the opponent to the ground, and make him an easier target for my more combat-focused teammates.

If you really want to go ranged you've got two main options as far as I can see. Grab a few small crossbows, and see if you can persuade your GM that you can have them modified so that they won't go off by accident. Then draw and fire a few times, once you're out of crossbows you can reload, or you can find a place to hide like a sensible non-combat character. Crossbows have the highest accuracy, and they're an Easy skill.
The other option, if you want damage and lots of it, quickly, rather than taking your time to hit with Aiming, etc... Grab a busload of Hatchets and see if your GM will allow Fast-Draw (Hatchet). Hatchets, unlike most axes, aren't Unbalanced after attacking, and provided you've always got one to hand, you'll always be able to defend, and even attack in melee. Thrown Weapon (Axe/Mace) is an Easy skill, making it better for low point characters. It also has room to develop in a spectacular fashion:

Fast-Draw (Hatchet) (E) DX+2 [4]
Thrown Weapon (Axe/Mace) (E) DX+2 [4]
Duel Weapon Attack (H) Thrown Weapon (Axe/Mace)-0 [5]
Off-Hand Weapon Training (Thrown Weapon (Axe/Mace)) [1]

For 14 points you can throw two axes per turn, doing swing cutting damage with each one. For this to be reliable you need high DX of course, but even at lower DX, you're bound to hit with at least one every few turns.
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Old 11-05-2015, 03:37 AM   #12
cdru
 
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Default Re: Creating a low point ST-based ranged fighter

Aiming can increase effective skill.Crossbows have 4 accuracy and they use easy skill.
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:02 AM   #13
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Default Re: Creating a low point ST-based ranged fighter

The problem with hatchets is that they weight a lot/shot and have low accuracy.

Basically you do want to have enough ammo to last at last 10 seconds and throwing enough of them to hit at that accuracy will basically come down to throwing without aiming and that gets heavy. At fast draw rates you would thus need 10+ such.

The javelin is better that there actually the aiming helps with acc 3 and increases the hit probability a lot so is usually worth it, so count on 5 javelins.

At DX 11 using a medium shield.
1 point is spear: melee 10, parry 10(get 2 points if you want to pretend to hit with it too....)
4 points in thrown weapon(spear): skill 13: thus with 1 second aim you get 12 to hit to 10 yards, 11 to hit to 15. Both are reasonable numbers.
1 point in fast draw(spear): skill 11(62.5%), or perhaps 2 points for skill 12(74.2%)
Note that if you would then use 2 points in shield you would get block of 11 as primary defense.
=6 to 10 points.

As for the crossbow user:
You would likey only get one shot off in a typical combat as enemies are likely to close in on you and you would need to switch to defensive equipment, but if not then you could likely get in a second shot.. But at 4 points you are starting at 13 for up to 10 yards and 12 for up to 15 yards.

But 1 point in rapier skill(or 2 points if you are at light encumbrance) and that medium shield, would give you a parry 10F so very high if you can retreat. Fast draw(buckler) and fast draw(rapier) would allow you to switch to defense fairly fast after dropping the crossbow.
=7 to 10 points.
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:27 AM   #14
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Default Re: Creating a low point ST-based ranged fighter

Seems to me you've got two options for ranged weapons: "Slow but accurate" (Crossbow, Bow), or "fast but inaccurate" (Thrown Weapon). The first is a kind of sniper role, aiming for a second or two and hitting key targets. The other is just lobbing an item downrange

However, I'll repeat what RyanW said: "contributing in combat need not mean killing enemies". Instead of going for damage, think about battlefield control. Is there magic in the setting? Pick up a few buffs for boosting your allies' combat, or stuff akin to the old grease spell from That Other Game (which I once used to great effect to send a horde of goblins down a bottomless pit as they charged in a door). The Glue spell in Magic is low-prerequisite and holds enemies in place, for instance, effectively robbing them of Dodge, or at least Retreat options.

YMMV
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:36 AM   #15
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Default Re: Creating a low point ST-based ranged fighter

>>> If you insist on ranged for reasons - Get the highest ST Crossbow available and carry it loaded.

First Option

Hire 2 Squirelings or buy Allies with 100% uptime with 25% of your points for like 8pts and make them carry Heavy Crossbows around for you or carry a Hand Crossbow and a shield...or one of them carry a Large Shield while the other carries a Heavy Crossbow.

They can either shoot it themselves or pass it to you after your first shot, so you only loose the turn to grab it, instead of a bazillion of rounds reloading.

Since you seem like a Face-type character, it seems quite suitable to have Servants/Hirelings around like that, much like a Noble.

Second Option

If Alchemical stuff is available, carry some Molotov Cocktails/Greek Fire/Whatever thing in the setting you can throw and put things on fire.

Even 1D-3 over some turns can make wonders to help.

Third Option

What's the setting power level? Are Innate Attacks allowed? If so, you could build a Zap-beam of sorts to deal consistent round-after-round 1 or 2D of damage or effects like Stun.

You could transform it into a Gadget of sorts, to represent a relic or apparatus if that better suits the scenario.

>>> If you are open to options - Go Melee.

First Option

Go Staff!

I'm a fan of Staff myself so I might be biased here...but Staff is simply superb!
With the same points investment you'll have a passable chance of hitting stuff and a very solid defense.

Second Option

Go Rapier!

This option will only blossom with more points invested and would peak with Weapon Master, which I'm not even sure the setting will include, so...

Nonetheless, subsequent parries are awesome, which allows a solid withstanding power even against odds (and you could also use a shield with your other hand).

Third Option

Load up the plate!

If they can't hurt you, it doesn't matter if you can or cannot defend.

Get the heaviest armor you can buy/find (Scale and above) and protect as much slots as you can.
Problem with this is moving around and not simply being a sitting duck which would require investment in ST or at least Lifting ST (if it's allowed).

Couple this with the meaniest baddassery piece of hurt you can have (Like a Halberd or Warhammer) and it doesn't matter you'll hit only 20% of the time because when you do...well, it's gonna hurt.
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:41 AM   #16
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Default Re: Creating a low point ST-based ranged fighter

So are the other party members non fighters, too? Else I can't quite explain how the basic assumption is that you're swamped by enemies within a few rounds.

Disregarding style & background, I think it would be worth to not boil it down to a 50% with one shot. After all, with a crossbow that assumes that you got it readied, loaded and started aiming beforehand. By the time you might have fired off a few shots with faster weapons, where your cumulative chance/average damage might be higher. Never mind that this would favor engagements where you're not carrying your loaded crossbow around all the time.

And a lot depends on the average armor of enemies, and whether you're in situations where you might not be able to carry more obvious ranged weaponry (there are plenty of situations where you could have hidden knives or even a sword at your side, but quivers of javelins or cranked crossbows might be a bit of a faux pas).
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Old 11-05-2015, 06:02 AM   #17
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Default Re: Creating a low point ST-based ranged fighter

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhd View Post
So are the other party members non fighters, too? Else I can't quite explain how the basic assumption is that you're swamped by enemies within a few rounds.
In practice it is extremely hard in GURPS to stop people from bypassing a front line unless the place is really cramped like a single doorway.
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Old 11-05-2015, 06:40 AM   #18
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Default Re: Creating a low point ST-based ranged fighter

There are lots of good ideas in this thread. I want to add some detail in order to answer some questions.

Quote:
Is this a combat-centric campaign?
It's not a hack and slash game, but I expect combat will happen on a regular basis. Again, I'm happy to not have the spotlight during those times, but I want to be able to give some meaningful contribution.

Quote:
You seem to be forgetting about Aiming.
Aiming is a pretty minor difference-maker (with the exception of the high Acc crossbow). Most weapons at this TL give an Acc of 1, which doesn't stack well against the magnitude of range penalties unless the character gets the opportunity to aim for the full three seconds.

From a character standpoint, I also feel like my character just wouldn't be trained in crossbows or javelins. I can give him something like thrown knives as a skill that he picked up wandering the back alleys, but he wasn't in a military. Obviously there's a tradeoff here: when I let the character concept determine what skills are appropriate, I am forced into suboptimal choices from a point or effectiveness standpoint. My goal in this thread is to see what options are available so I can balance my character concept against the functional needs of the campaign.

Quote:
Even if, after active defenses, you're only hitting 25% off the time, you're still forcing the enemy to use an active defense much more often than that. That means burning up blocks, no cheap All Out Attacks, spoiled aims, rolls to maintain concentration.
This is helpful because I hadn't thought about active defenses as a limited resource for the NPCs.

Quote:
Instead of going for damage, think about battlefield control. Is there magic in the setting? Pick up a few buffs for boosting your allies' combat, or stuff akin to the old grease spell from That Other Game.
This is actually the plan for that character. He has a couple of mind control spells as extensions of his Intimidation influence skill, so he can create areas of fear, terror, or panic on the battlefield. The goal behind this question is to make him slightly more versatile than a one-trick pony so he doesn't spend the first round of combat casting spells and then hiding for the rest of the battle.
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Old 11-05-2015, 06:46 AM   #19
mhd
 
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Default Re: Creating a low point ST-based ranged fighter

Quote:
Originally Posted by weby View Post
In practice it is extremely hard in GURPS to stop people from bypassing a front line unless the place is really cramped like a single doorway.
While intercepting might be hard enough, it's generally a very bad idea to turn your back to well-armed people just to take out a ranged combatant. And if all your friends are engaged and thus unable to help you, while enemies roam around looking for you, it might be a good idea to move.

But speaking of defensive positions, that's a huge advantage of a crossbow. You can reload it in cover and your firing position still doesn't expose a lot of your body. Useful both for not getting hit and switching firing positions to surprise the foes.

Slings ain't that bad, either. Not as accurate, sure, but faster than crossbows and cheap ammo, easily concealable. And the option to upgrade to dart or staff slings, never mind that in fantasy settings you might be able to chuck a few grenade-like items, too.
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Old 11-05-2015, 07:46 AM   #20
T.K.
 
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Default Re: Creating a low point ST-based ranged fighter

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophyguy View Post
This is actually the plan for that character. He has a couple of mind control spells as extensions of his Intimidation influence skill, so he can create areas of fear, terror, or panic on the battlefield. The goal behind this question is to make him slightly more versatile than a one-trick pony so he doesn't spend the first round of combat casting spells and then hiding for the rest of the battle.
Well...you certainly said you want to have more options and all but...

I hardly doubt without an extremely specialized combat-type character you'll ever come close to the havoc caused by the triad of Mind Stun, Grease and Tickle, as an example.

If the character is already a caster of sorts, I'd focus on that and simply hold a staff around to reduce penalty range AND have a Parry for emergencies.
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