Extra Attacks in GURPS vs. DFRPG (and Scouts)

MakDemonik · 09-29-2020, 08:31 PM

I wasn't exactly sure whether this should go to the DFRPG or the GURPS forum but as I reference GURPS rules multiple times for comparison I decided to be better safe than sorry/annoying.

No matter how many times I read the description of the DFRPG Extra attack. I do not see anything disallowing from using the same weapon twice as the extra attack. Now the point cost is still [25] but GURPS Powers prices Multi-Strike as a 20% enhancement. (So it would cost [30] points to attack with the same ready weapon)

Am I assuming correctly that this is not an oversight but a rather a simplification and the DFRPG Extra Attack is just meant to be stronger at the same price point?

And maybe a side question, but still related. What DFRPG does specify thought is that the weapon needs to be ready. A scout can buy Extra Attack 1, but a bow is not exactly ready after firing it. And with so many points going into the scouts bow focus (Strongbow perk, Heroic archer, Weapon Master) Paying 25 points to not be able to use your best attack twice when all the other classes do have that option feels a bit unfair for the archer.

Now a player of mine knows about the original GURPS:DF11 Power-Ups splat with Dual Weapon Attack (Bow). And asked me whether she can buy the Double arrow strike which would be similar in function to the above. But in this case I feel it's horribly underpriced.

Even ignoring the fact how physics work and that 2 arrows on the same bowstring would equal 1/2 force on each arrow so half damage (since this if Fatnasy After all). This technique effectively doubles the archers damage capabilities for just [6] points and is even better than the regular Dual Weapon Attack, since there is no Off-Hand to speak off (Its a Bow you always use both hands) so the -4 offhand penalty is waived. Which makes using it again [5] or [4] points cheaper than normal DWA (since you dont need ambidexterity or OHWT)

From the top of my head I just came up with the following solution based on some simple calculations but I would really like some input on it before I just allow for it and then it will break something in the future or feel unfair.

Modified DWA (Bow): Double-Shot [15] or [14]
Gurps converts modifiers of +4 to 1 die and +7 to 2 dice.
Since an arrow would lose half its strength if 2 are drawn at the same time this is equal to a -2 per die of damage penalty on each arrow. To not have to calculate that we add 2 points of Striking Strength 4 with a similar modifier as Backstab (Only Dual Arrow Technique, -60%) which brings the damage roughly back to -2/+2 (as each 2 more ST rougly equals +1 in Thr damage).
Traits: OG Power-Up [6] or [7], 4 Striking ST (-60%) [8], Total: [14] or [15]
What do you guys think about that solution? Is it too harsh?

Well either that... or maybe I'm going to allow for the Vanilla Double-Shot power up but will require the technique to use AoA:Strong as a required Maneuver to use the technique, where the 'Strong' option doesn't add any more damage but functions to set-off the hypothetical power loss of two arrows even though that would strain the bow.

09-29-2020, 08:31 PM	#1
MakDemonik Join Date: Dec 2014	Extra Attacks in GURPS vs. DFRPG (and Scouts) I wasn't exactly sure whether this should go to the DFRPG or the GURPS forum but as I reference GURPS rules multiple times for comparison I decided to be better safe than sorry/annoying. No matter how many times I read the description of the DFRPG Extra attack. I do not see anything disallowing from using the same weapon twice as the extra attack. Now the point cost is still [25] but *GURPS Powers* prices Multi-Strike as a 20% enhancement. (So it would cost [30] points to attack with the same ready weapon) Am I assuming correctly that this is not an oversight but a rather a simplification and the DFRPG Extra Attack is just meant to be stronger at the same price point? And maybe a side question, but still related. What DFRPG does specify thought is that the weapon needs to be ready. A scout can buy Extra Attack 1, but a bow is not exactly ready after firing it. And with so many points going into the scouts bow focus (Strongbow perk, Heroic archer, Weapon Master) Paying 25 points to not be able to use your best attack twice when all the other classes do have that option feels a bit unfair for the archer. Now a player of mine knows about the original *GURPS:DF11 Power-Ups* splat with Dual Weapon Attack (Bow). And asked me whether she can buy the Double arrow strike which would be similar in function to the above. But in this case I feel it's horribly underpriced. Even ignoring the fact how physics work and that 2 arrows on the same bowstring would equal 1/2 force on each arrow so half damage (since this if Fatnasy After all). This technique effectively doubles the archers damage capabilities for just [6] points and is even better than the regular Dual Weapon Attack, since there is no Off-Hand to speak off (Its a Bow you always use both hands) so the -4 offhand penalty is waived. Which makes using it again [5] or [4] points cheaper than normal DWA (since you dont need ambidexterity or OHWT) From the top of my head I just came up with the following solution based on some simple calculations but I would really like some input on it before I just allow for it and then it will break something in the future or feel unfair. Modified DWA (Bow): *Double-Shot [15] or [14]* Gurps converts modifiers of +4 to 1 die and +7 to 2 dice. Since an arrow would lose half its strength if 2 are drawn at the same time this is equal to a -2 per die of damage penalty on each arrow. To not have to calculate that we add 2 points of Striking Strength 4 with a similar modifier as Backstab (Only Dual Arrow Technique, -60%) which brings the damage roughly back to -2/+2 (as each 2 more ST rougly equals +1 in Thr damage). Traits: OG Power-Up [6] or [7], 4 Striking ST (-60%) [8], Total: [14] or [15] What do you guys think about that solution? Is it too harsh? Well either that... or maybe I'm going to allow for the Vanilla Double-Shot power up but will require the technique to use AoA:Strong as a required Maneuver to use the technique, where the 'Strong' option doesn't add any more damage but functions to set-off the hypothetical power loss of two arrows even though that would strain the bow.