[Basic] Skills of the week: Economics, Finance and Market Analysis

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Ah, much harder. Merchant-6 seems plausible.

Yes, and since Economics handily defaults to Merchant-6 or Finance-3, it seems like a good fit.

I don't think you actually have economics until you have the idea of the market as a self-regulating system, or at least a spontaneously evolving one. This need not mean a belief that the market is inherently good. But you have to have the idea that market phenomena happen without anyone commanding or ordaining them, so that you can study their behavior. Before then you have the equivalent of Engineering and Mechanics without Physics.

Though I don't know if GURPS has a skill that corresponds to Engineering. I suppose that Politics and Administration correspond to Mechanics, but it's not clear to me that there's a Statecraft skill, or Rulership, or even Policy.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Though I don't know if GURPS has a skill that corresponds to Engineering. I suppose that Politics and Administration correspond to Mechanics, but it's not clear to me that there's a Statecraft skill, or Rulership, or even Policy.

There is, of course, a Social Engineering supplement in that. My own suspicion is that there are several ways to do it. Rulers of every stripe need to cultivate loyalty, but after that there are several ways to get people to do what you want, including Intimidation, Diplomacy, Law (Constitutional), Propaganda and Public Speaking (which seems to have been how Churchill got Roosevelt to adopt many of his ideas). Historic states have probably run on Law (Religious), Theology, and sometimes other skills.

If there were a single skill of Statecraft or Rulership, you'd expect members of modern governments to have it, to use it to understand what was practical, and the governments to function more smoothly and reliably.

The discipline the USA calls Public Policy seems to be a combination of Law (Constitutional), Politics and Administration, about how to do things within the US' particular governmental system, and with fairly limited applicability to other systems.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by johndallman

The discipline the USA calls Public Policy seems to be a combination of Law (Constitutional), Politics and Administration, about how to do things within the US' particular governmental system, and with fairly limited applicability to other systems.

But there's an older tradition of the study of policy going back at least to Machiavelli, who was one of the first writers I know of to write about governing as a pragmatic art of doing what works rather than an expression of the ruler's moral qualities.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by whswhs

But there's an older tradition of the study of policy going back at least to Machiavelli, who was one of the first writers I know of to write about governing as a pragmatic art of doing what works rather than an expression of the ruler's moral qualities.

It doesn't seem to have taken off, does it? Such a pragmatic art can plausibly exist within a specific type of government, but except for general ideas like trying to divide your opponents, which plausibly come under Politics, how much would be applicable to the governments of both Reagan and Charlemagne?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by johndallman

The discipline the USA calls Public Policy seems to be a combination of Law (Constitutional), Politics and Administration, about how to do things within the US' particular governmental system, and with fairly limited applicability to other systems.

When I took a course in it the Law aspect was not particularly notable. Lots of practical Politics (skill of dealing with pol8iticias) but not Law so much.

Some of it could be folded into Profesional Skill: City Manager (or County Admistrator). This is a managerial professional who performs the day-today admin in most forms of local government in the US. Not a civil servant though (especially not in the UK sense). Managers are hired and fired freely and frequently by the elected politicians.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Overheat

I like having the money skills all be separated out. If people really did duke it out with 300 point accountants and financiers, then having this level of detail would allow for interesting occurrences, rather than see who can roll better on the Money! skill.

I had a 1000pt accountant once. He was mainly an auditor in a society where accusations of financial misconduct were settled by Duels of Honor. He had Business Acumen and sot of the Skills it covered but most of his points were actually in genetic enhancements and combat Skills.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by whswhs

But there's an older tradition of the study of policy going back at least to Machiavelli, who was one of the first writers I know of to write about governing as a pragmatic art of doing what works rather than an expression of the ruler's moral qualities.

Machiavelli is a late up and comer compared to the oldest written pragmatic work on statecraft, the Arthashastra.



The Prince was written closer to our time than the Arthashastra was to The Prince's...

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Machiavelli is a late up and comer compared to the oldest written pragmatic work on statecraft, the Arthashastra.

You know, I remembered that after I went to bed; it's been many years since I read about it—I think it might have been in one of Joseph Campbell's books, but I could be misremembering. Anyway, it's a perfectly valid point. There is also Thucydides: Concerning gods we have the belief, and concerning men the certainty, that each one does what is in his power.

[whswhs]

Anyway, I just had a player make a Finance roll: They could easily afford to replace the 20% of ship's supplies that they'd used in their initial voyage. Since they'd made a decent profit, I told them that they could raise the funds for Good ship's supplies (more, more varied, and better quality), giving them +1 to maintenance and repair tasks, on a Finance+5 roll, or for Fine supplies on a Finance roll. They went for the Finance+5 roll and made it, so now their ship is a bit better stocked with ropes and tar and sailcloth.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by whswhs

You know, I remembered that after I went to bed; it's been many years since I read about it—I think it might have been in one of Joseph Campbell's books, but I could be misremembering. Anyway, it's a perfectly valid point. There is also Thucydides: Concerning gods we have the belief, and concerning men the certainty, that each one does what is in his power.

Machaivelli gets all the props though, his work was easier to follow, at least one of the translations of the Arthashastra I've read was... jumpy (as in it skipped about between topics without any real coherence). The other was less... pure in the translation as the author tried to make the work more fluid.