Spheres of Exchange

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Varyon

[...] the problem occurs when it's overdone - common items shouldn't be in different spheres from other common items, because being able to buy your rations with coin but needing appropriate barter for rope, candles, and weaponry would be annoying.

Exactly this. If a PC can start out with it, then it should simply have a cost in whatever units are used for starting money, Signature Gear, Wealth, etc. Save the separate spheres for things PCs can't start out with, like ancient enchantments that break the rules, items handed down by the gods, and exceedingly rare resources that are the focus of entire story arcs. These things already use a rarity- and power-based Unusual Background (Artifact) – or a special trait like Raw Magic Store – instead of a cash value when players successfully convince the GM to allow them to starting characters, so there's no interference with cash values for lesser goods.

[RyanW]

I've always wondered, if pigs and metal tools can only be traded for pigs and metal tools, how anyone but pig farmers and blacksmiths ever get pigs and/or metal tools. But then, that's probably a feature. I strongly suspect any system in which trade of product Y is special and restricted was probably originally established by people with a monopoly on Y and a desire to keep it that way.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Exactly this. If a PC can start out with it, then it should simply have a cost in whatever units are used for starting money, Signature Gear, Wealth, etc. Save the separate spheres for things PCs can't start out with, like ancient enchantments that break the rules, items handed down by the gods, and exceedingly rare resources that are the focus of entire story arcs. These things already use a rarity- and power-based Unusual Background (Artifact) – or a special trait like Raw Magic Store – instead of a cash value when players successfully convince the GM to allow them to starting characters, so there's no interference with cash values for lesser goods.

I was actually thinking something a bit more in between - the special goods wouldn't all be McGuffins in the making, but instead just things that the PC's won't need to deal with purchasing/selling very often. My thoughts were that the general bits would be magic items (proper world-shattering artifacts aren't for sale or exchange), special gems (I'm thinking in the vein of the gemstones from The Stormlight Archives, which serve as light sources, powerstones, and currency all at once), and heavily customized gear, like Expertly/Masterfully Tailored armor and the like (this last, being more service than goods, would have the interesting quality of being able to be traded for but typically not traded in, as it's generally just really nice-looking scrap metal for anyone else). Ideally, everything would still have a nominal monetary value (for when it's available on the black market, although something like 20x price might be appropriate then), allowing characters to start with them if so desired.

Originally Posted by RyanW

I've always wondered, if pigs and metal tools can only be traded for pigs and metal tools, how anyone but pig farmers and blacksmiths ever get pigs and/or metal tools. But then, that's probably a feature. I strongly suspect any system in which trade of product Y is special and restricted was probably originally established by people with a monopoly on Y and a desire to keep it that way.

You're probably right, at least in part, on the monopoly bit. However, I think in most cases there are many services that don't fit into any sphere. If the pig farmer has been having trouble with pig-thieves, he may be willing to pay you in pork for getting rid of them. If the blacksmith's son falls in a well and breaks his leg, and you get him out of the pit, set his leg for him, and take him to his home, the grateful blacksmith may well gift you with some new tools as thanks for saving him.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by RyanW

I've always wondered, if pigs and metal tools can only be traded for pigs and metal tools, how anyone but pig farmers and blacksmiths ever get pigs and/or metal tools.

There are always built-in methods to get new people into the system. For example, it might be quite common for someone might give a favored young relative their first pigs or metal items as wedding or initiation gifts, possibly in return for something which isn't an item from that particular sphere of exchange, but for the occasion is treated as symbolically equivalent. Normal transactions may only be pigs-for-knives, but under exceptional circumstances, a yam may be treated like a pig.

[The Colonel]

As someone has already touched on, this might be a really good way of cutting back the rampant commercialisation of magical items found in certain other fRPGs ... if magic is a different sphere of exchange, no amount of gold will buy or sell it.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

As someone has already touched on, this might be a really good way of cutting back the rampant commercialisation of magical items found in certain other fRPGs ... if magic is a different sphere of exchange, no amount of gold will buy or sell it.

And it makes fetching magical artifacts useful even if a) the artifact isn't directly useful to the PCs, and b) it isn't exceptionally valuable.

An amulet of illusory fingernail polish isn't particularly useful to an adventuring party, but if it makes a good trade for a wand of cure light wounds it would be worth dragging back to town.

[Gedrin]

Originally Posted by RyanW

I've always wondered, if pigs and metal tools can only be traded for pigs and metal tools, how anyone but pig farmers and blacksmiths ever get pigs and/or metal tools. But then, that's probably a feature. I strongly suspect any system in which trade of product Y is special and restricted was probably originally established by people with a monopoly on Y and a desire to keep it that way.

Such a culture probably has "middle men minorities", people who don't have a vested interest in the social structure (because they're minorities and kept out regardless), so they can freely engage in trade between the spheres. "I certainly wouldn't lower myself to buying rope, but I have a *waves hand dismissively* half-orc that does that sort of thing..."

In this scenario, no one would ever be seen publicly with their half-orc contact, but everyone would need to use this small group for exchanging between spheres. The half-orc community might have no stake in the social structure due to race or beliefs, and thus have nothing to loose when operating outside the structures.

These people tend to do business that others don't want to do or can't. They may not produce anything, and others don't understand the work they do well. Because of their position (or lack thereof), they can become wealthy for their station. Unfortunately, they lack social protections of other classes, generally live in ghetos (even if they're nice places) and are frequently the targets of envy and violence. When a scapegoat is needed, this inexplicably well off people who no one knows much about...they get burned at the stake.

Numerous IRL examples can be found.

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by RyanW

I've always wondered, if pigs and metal tools can only be traded for pigs and metal tools, how anyone but pig farmers and blacksmiths ever get pigs and/or metal tools. But then, that's probably a feature. I strongly suspect any system in which trade of product Y is special and restricted was probably originally established by people with a monopoly on Y and a desire to keep it that way.

Aside from spheres being larger than two goods and the presence of the occasional exception to rules to release some pressure you are correct that making it harder for people to get certain goods is a feature. It's often as much about not letting people leverage domination of prestige items into acquiring too much practical, wealth generating items as an attempt at a sort of sumptuary law though.

Originally Posted by Gedrin

Numerous IRL examples can be found.

Care to give one? It had been my impression that when a continuous method of omni-sphere trade is introduced spheres of exchange either disintegrate or handle the problem.

[Randyman]

Originally Posted by Sindri

Care to give one? It had been my impression that when a continuous method of omni-sphere trade is introduced spheres of exchange either disintegrate or handle the problem.

European Jews.

I really don't want to detail further and risk thread lock, etc.

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by Randyman

European Jews.

I really don't want to detail further and risk thread lock, etc.

I seem to have misplaced my memory of European Jews acting as a third party pathway of exchange for a society using spheres of exchange.