Cost of Living Breakdown

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

This seems to pretty much negate the whole ability to get stuff normal for a settled lifestyle without painstakingly itemising it

It is quite unusual to have a home without owing someone something for it.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Hmm. Missed that. Thanks. So a TL9 Wealthy [30] would have $9,000 Discretionary Income instead of $15,000 (Status 2) or $17,400 (Status 0 CoL). Still kinda nerf of Wealth, which is already somewhat dubious in terms of income.

If you have more than 10 points of independent income, you'll be better off raising your wealth level than raising your independent income. Note that the 10% is for 'living like a person of that wealth level' -- it's perfectly possible to be wealthy and live at a comfortable level.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It is quite unusual to have a home without owing someone something for it.

Well, this 'owing' can be either renting or buying it. If paying 80% Wealth gets you bought stuff (that you can use on adventure, even), then not paying it means you'll have to do without or rent, no?

Originally Posted by Anthony

If you have more than 10 points of independent income, you'll be better off raising your wealth level than raising your independent income. Note that the 10% is for 'living like a person of that wealth level' -- it's perfectly possible to be wealthy and live at a comfortable level.

Sure, II is bad without more Wealth. But my point was that Wealth still becomes less desirable if you get to keep less of its income.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Sure, II is bad without more Wealth. But my point was that Wealth still becomes less desirable if you get to keep less of its income.

Under RAW, someone with comfortable wealth living at status 1 has twice the take-home income of someone with average wealth living at status 0. Under my rules, someone with comfortable wealth living at comfortable CoL has twice the take-home income of someone with average wealth living at average CoL. The differences are:
Take-home wealth changes from 10% to 6%
CoL is based on the wealth level you're living at, not the status level you're living at.

The first is not that relevant. The second is because the way it works under RAW produces nonsense results for any society which allows high status without requiring high wealth.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Under RAW, someone with comfortable wealth living at status 1 has twice the take-home income of someone with average wealth living at status 0. Under my rules, someone with comfortable wealth living at comfortable CoL has twice the take-home income of someone with average wealth living at average CoL. The differences are:
Take-home wealth changes from 10% to 6%

Which basically means that Wealth becomes roughly 40% less desirable, since the absolute amount of stuff you can have at a given TL is still reduced. Also, this reduces the effect of TL on increasing Discretionary Income.

Originally Posted by Anthony

CoL is based on the wealth level you're living at, not the status level you're living at.

Okay, this one is confusing, but we've been over it and I'm not sure how much useful discussion will come out of it anymore. I'll just reiterate that Status is not reputation, but includes an assortment of benefits.

Originally Posted by Anthony

The first is not that relevant. The second is because the way it works under RAW produces nonsense results for any society which allows high status without requiring high wealth.

Why nonsense? I'm pretty sure Kromm and whswhs have shown the permutations with such people acquiring Status from various sources.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Which basically means that Wealth becomes roughly 40% less desirable, since the absolute amount of stuff you can have at a given TL is still reduced.

No, it becomes about 4 points less valuable.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Also, this reduces the effect of TL on increasing Discretionary Income.

No it doesn't. It just changes the ratio of discretionary income to cost of living.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Why nonsense? I'm pretty sure Kromm and whswhs have shown the permutations with such people acquiring Status from various sources.

What they basically amount to is "your cost of living is not the amount of money you actually pay for cost of living". Which is just plain bad rules.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anthony

No, it becomes about 4 points less valuable.

Hmm, maybe.

Originally Posted by Anthony

No it doesn't. It just changes the ratio of discretionary income to cost of living.

It changes the absolute values of discretionary income for any given combination of Wealth and TL compared to RAW.

Originally Posted by Anthony

What they basically amount to is "your cost of living is not the amount of money you actually pay for cost of living". Which is just plain bad rules.

Which makes sense if e.g. your cost of living is partially or completely paid by Biotech Euphrates, Uncle Sam, or your owner. Not paying CoL for Status, that is.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Which makes sense if e.g. your cost of living is partially or completely paid by Biotech Euphrates, Uncle Sam, or your owner.

That's Independent Income (CoL Offset Only).

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anthony

That's Independent Income (CoL Offset Only).

That's one way to do it (which incidentally doesn't work for Dead Broke characters like owned AIs etc.). Others include having Imputed Status, using Pulling Rank to request financing of CoL, having a Patron, probably other ways I'm forgetting. Just like there's more than one way to burn an enemy in combat.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Which basically means that Wealth becomes roughly 40% less desirable, since the absolute amount of stuff you can have at a given TL is still reduced. Also, this reduces the effect of TL on increasing Discretionary Income.

That's probably a good thing. People have way too much discretionary income in GURPS RAW, especially at TL8+.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Oh, also: since the whole point of setting aside 80% of Wealth is to own this settled stuff, there's really no incentive to spend 80% on settle stuff if you're gonna rent stuff anyway.

I rent an apartment. I still own towels. I do not want to have to list Towels (12) or whatever on my character sheet as adventuring gear (the same goes for furniture, books, paperclips and so on).

Really though, I'm currently inclined to use Abstract Wealth for any game where bean-counting isn't a part of the game. For the most part if it's a game where you are spending the 80%, then you might be better off with Abstract Wealth instead, anyhow, IMO.