SFOD-D ("Delta Force") template (critique?)

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by TheOneRonin

Not sure sure I believe that about BUD/S. It's gotten a lot of media attention, so we tend to know what BUD/S training looks like PHYSICALLY, but based on conversations I've had with members of the Special Operations community and the research I've done, AF PJ school is even harder than BUD/S PHYSICALLY.

What is AF PJ?

Good points about Delta vs SEAL.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

What is AF PJ?

United States Air Force Pararescue Jumper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...rce_Pararescue

[Icelander]

This thread seemed close enough for a couple of questions I have about CAG/Delta.

Does the unit have Warrant Officer billets? That is, can somebody like a Special Forces 180A Warrant Officer attend the Selection and Assessment and Operator Training Course (OTC) for 1st SFOD-D/CAG?

I know they don't take Sergeant-Majors (E-9), at least not according to recruitment ads published in Paraglide (E-4 to E-8 for enlisted interested in Selection and Assessment), but I haven't found information on whether Warrant Officers are accepted.

Also, is there an age cut-off for attending OTC?

Do they accept 35+ year-old SF SNCOs and/or 40+ year-old CW2s or higher?

What about operators who do several years in the unit straight out of the 75th Ranger Regiment and before attending SFQC; then go on to be the Team Sergeant or Assistant Detachment Commander of a 'regular' ODA in a Special Forces Group after they do SFQC, but then want to come back to 1st SFOD-D in some sort of command or SNCO capacity later?

Is that possible?

Common?

Would they repeat OTC?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Eukie

Warrant Officer: (11 points)
Add Military Rank 3 advantage [+10]
Increase Administration to IQ+0 level (13) [1]

Originally Posted by acrosome

There are E-4s in SFOD-D, but they are support troops. You will not find an operator who is that low of a rank. They have to prove themselves quite thoroughly to even be invited to try out for SFOD-D. This means some time in service, and rank. If there are any below E-6 I'd be surprised. If you've ever watched The Unit you'll note that just about everyone is a Master Sergeant.

Originally Posted by acrosome

This, yes.

My understanding of GURPS Rank isn't that it is really hierarchical amongst those with the Rank. Rather it is a measure of their authority, or perhaps how many people work under them. It's quite abstract. This is why both very senior NCOs and very junior officers can be Rank 3, according to Basic Set, and why I thought I could justify some overlap there.

A CW5 certainly does have a lot of authority...

I could easily justify abstracting warrant grades even more, perhaps just to two grades- "Warrant Officer" and "Chief Warrant Officer" or something. I'm pretty sure that the USAF doesn't have warrant officers at all, and the USCG only uses three grades rather than the five the Army uses, etc., so this would be justifiable.

But, no, no warrant officer would ever be placed in a position of command over a commissioned officer, unless there are some very bizarre circumstances involved. However, as I mentioned, I have seen warrant officers in command positions. Usually these are maintenance or support units, like the maintenance platoon in an independent MI company, or the maintenance detachment in a Combat Support Hospital, etc. And even then it is usually because there are no commissioned officers available.

But occasional bizarre circumstances do pop up. As a major I have been the commander of a bird colonel. But the medical corps is just bizarre in many ways...

Explanation: the colonel was PROFIS to a Forward Surgical Team that I was commanding during a deployment. Doctors are sort of considered swappable modules in the medical corps, and it just happened to be the colonel's turn for an FST tour. He couldn't realistically assume command since he was only going to be there four months, and such individuals usually treasure the opportunity to be "just" a surgeon for a while, anyway. I had to have the TF-MED DCCS write his OER, though. But I could give him legal orders. Again- I'd have been stupid to make an issue of it if he resisted, but I could have.

Does anyone know of a source, anecdotal or otherwise, on whether there are any Warrant Officer billets in the 1st SFOD-D?

I can find the listed requirements for enlisted men and officers who want to try out to attend OTC, but I can't find the same for WO1 to CW5.

I could interpret that as meaning that Special Forces or other SOF-qualified enlisted men (HUMINT, CI, etc.) who accept a spot at WOCS or SF-WOTTC are thereby ruling out ever becoming Delta operators, but given that the unit has even accepted candidates from other branches of service, that seems somewhat restrictive, at least without evidence.

I think that a 180A SF Chief Warrant Officer could contribute valuable expertise to a Delta squadron or HQ, but I also have some sympathy for the argument that the 'regular' Special Forces made a very expensive investment in that warrant officer and that his special expertise is even more valuable to his ODA than to Delta.

So, in the case of an NPC in my campaign, in his background, at some point, he was a First Sergeant serving in Delta, with a background in the 75th Ranger Regiment and having also finished SFQC. He was offered the chance to go to WOCS and become a warrant officer, with the understanding that he'd probably be posted to an ODA in the 7th SFG, because of his linguistic and cultural expertise.

Does agreeing to this mean he is effectively barred from ever returning to Delta in any capacity or can he serve a rotation of several years as a warrant officer on an ODA in 'Green' SF and then try to return to Delta as a troop commander, assistant squadron intelligence officer or with some specialized billet in the Combat Support Squadron?

[acrosome]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Does agreeing to this mean he is effectively barred from ever returning to Delta in any capacity or can he serve a rotation of several years as a warrant officer on an ODA in 'Green' SF and then try to return to Delta as a troop commander, assistant squadron intelligence officer or with some specialized billet in the Combat Support Squadron?

Sorry I found this so late, Icelander.

Short answer on warrants in SFOD-D: I'm not sure. However...

I can tell you with great confidence that in the higher-tier special operations community there is a LOT of informal stuff that goes on- people end up in odd billets. If he was a former SFOD-D operator, and the guys currently in SFOD-D knew him and wanted his help with something, I am confident they could make it happen and find a billet for him.

I knew an SFOD-A guy with one leg, on deployment in a third-world combat zone that shall remain nameless. Big Nick. He'd sit in the middle back seat of the MATV and take his prosthetic leg off and shove it behind his seat to make more room, because he was so big he otherwise crowded the other two guys. Arguably, he wasn't fit for deployment in that environment, but his team-mates knew him and trusted him, so he went. And who was going to tell them "no"?

[acrosome]

Necro. I hope that I will be forgiven, but I was reading some nostalgia posts including this one and thought I'd give some context to that last post.

This is Big Nick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HNpvZvHvaU

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by acrosome

Necro. I hope that I will be forgiven, but I was reading some nostalgia posts including this one and thought I'd give some context to that last post.

This is Big Nick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HNpvZvHvaU

Very impressive story. I'm glad things worked out for him & he could stay on.