US Law Enforcement Response, Time, Scale and Coordination (Galveston, TX)

[Verjigorm]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Incidentally, bear in mind when trying to shoot a pursuing vehicle at night: everything but the lights (headlights and flashers) is functionally invisible, and night vision will not help. That's fine if your plan is to shoot at the lights or the vehicle body, not fine if you want to do anything more precise.

Just put a burst in between the headlights. That's the important place you want to target anyway.

[AlexanderHowl]

Originally Posted by maximara

Interstate 40 is also U.S. Highway 87 so someone (especially if they are under pressure) could say it technically falls under the mayor/county commissioner for that stretch.

U.S. Highway 87 is also part of the federal highway system (just not the interstate system), so you would still need permission from a governor to close it down (even a rolling blockade would exceed the authority of a mayor/county commissioner).

[maximara]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

U.S. Highway 87 is also part of the federal highway system (just not the interstate system), so you would still need permission from a governor to close it down (even a rolling blockade would exceed the authority of a mayor/county commissioner).

Per the wikiperida article on them despite being called a "federal highway system" they "were built and have always been maintained by state or local governments."

A little searching produced "Buchanan County Sheriff deputies are shutting down Highway 59 because of flooding." Not the governor but the County Sheriff deputies so they do have some leeway. As the old saying goes 'better to ask forgiveness then permission'.

This is especially true if the "local billionaire J.R. Kessler" wants action now because someone 'hurt his little girl'.

That is the problem with having such a person involved even tangentially. When large amounts of money get involved things can get dicey and sometimes the law takes a back seat to expediency. Heck, we know that the guy has enough clout to interfere with a kidnapping investigation which could run into Texas Penal Code - Penal § 38.15. Interference with Public Duties. Sure it is only a Class B misdemeanor but the interference is in regards to a state felony so I don't know how those two law interact with each other.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

you would still need permission from a governor to close it down

What's your source for this information? And just to be sure, are you speaking in a legal sense, or simply in a practical one? (That is, even if you have the legal authority to shut down a major highway, it might be a good idea to get the governor's approval first so that you don't make him mad at you. But that doesn't mean you "need" permission, at least in my mind.)

Texas law puts the authority for permanently (apparently) closing roads in the hands of a commission in each county, not the governor. I'd be surprised if temporary closures for public safety emergencies required even that much approval. Firefighters, for instance, are given authority to close roads (see Sec 546.007) in the performance of their official duties. Sec 542.202 at least alludes to the authority of police officers and local authorities to close roads.

What makes you say that the governor's personal permission is needed?

[AlexanderHowl]

I am sure that law only applies to state and local roads, not roads that are part of the federal highway system (which are funded by the federal government even if they are maintained by local/state governors). Each state retains sufficient sovereignty to allow the governor to close or redirect a federal highway in an emergency, but any mayor/comissioner who did so would be facing lawsuits, if not prosecution from the federal government. Even so, the statds could not shut down a federal highway permanently without permission from the federal government.

[dcarson]

I'd expect that if the police shut down the highway for a half hour at night and the press release thanks the governor's office for the prompt help in stopping the terrorists before they escaped the governor will not say anything about not having anything to do with it.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I am sure that law only applies to state and local roads, not roads that are part of the federal highway system (which are funded by the federal government even if they are maintained by local/state governors). Each state retains sufficient sovereignty to allow the governor to close or redirect a federal highway in an emergency, but any mayor/comissioner who did so would be facing lawsuits, if not prosecution from the federal government. Even so, the statds could not shut down a federal highway permanently without permission from the federal government.

We don't have to speculate as the Federal Highway Administration has the laws regarding the two Federal Highway systems on line.

What we want should be in Titles 23 (Highways) and 49 (Transportation)

I should mention that I worked for a hotel and every so often the Interstate would temporarily be shut down by the city or county due to weather. Something similar happened in 2017 with the flooding of Interstate 45 some 20 miles north of Galveston, TX

Before that I actual worked for the Federal government as a volunteer (BLM) and as a G5 (Department of Agriculture) and there were times we had to do totally gonzo things simply because no one had ever updated the related statute.

One particle instance was the enforcement of the American Antiquities Act of 1906 with regards to logging. A lot of the time the logging company would go in and after logging 50% or more we'd get sent in. Thanks to the heavy machinery lithics would come to the surface and the area that had already been logged was now off limits.

It got so bad that it was joked we worked for the Forest Circus as part of the Tom and Barry show. Tom and Barry were the names of our immediate supervisors and I don't really blame them as they were doing the best to enforce a federal law that really hadn't seen major updates since Theodore Roosevelt.

While I know that The Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 hasn't just sat there I imagine that there are that there are provisions that by 2019 standards are totally gonzo but because they come up so rarely that no one has up dated the thing. Eisenhower's administration just wasn't all that aggressive. In fact, my history teacher said that it had become a joke.

Teacher: There is a new toy on the market. It's an Eisenhower doll.
Student: What's it do?
Teacher: You wind it up and it does nothing for 8 years.

The really sad thing is his Presidential Library reflects this. There is next to nothing about his term as President.

Buck v. Bell from 1927 is another one of those things still on the books so it is still perfectly legal for a state to sterilize you without your consent if it deems it necessary. Because of the political fallout that publicly doing this perfectly legal act would cause it is one of those laws that quietly sits there on the books.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I am sure that law only applies to state and local roads

Why are you so sure? Citation needed.

I'm just waiting for the scene in a cop drama where there's an exciting chase, but the detectives suddenly have to swerve and abandon the chase because the villain cleverly turned onto the 405 to make his escape. All the good crooks know that the LAPD has no jurisdiction over the Interstate system. Our heroes have to radio an emergency call to the governor's office to obtain permission to stop traffic on the Interstate. (But he's on vacation at the lake! But these are terrorists, dammit! They're already halfway to Arizona and then there'll be a whole 'nother governor we'd have to call, so you need to get him on the phone NOW... Thank God we're not in the northeast with all those tiny states, a new governor every hour*.)

Interstate closures for road work, accidents, and crimes and police chases are pretty routine. If governors had to issue an executive order for every one of those events in their state, they'd never get anything else done. The state DoTs usually handle the long-term stuff, and various sorts of cops the immediate crime, traffic, and safety sort of closures.

--
* say Allentown, PA to Brattleboro, VT. Six states, four hours and 40 minutes per Google Maps. I-78, I-278 or I-95, I-684, I-84, I-91. Good luck, coppers! Hahahaha! *vroom*

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Incidentally, bear in mind when trying to shoot a pursuing vehicle at night: everything but the lights (headlights and flashers) is functionally invisible, and night vision will not help. That's fine if your plan is to shoot at the lights or the vehicle body, not fine if you want to do anything more precise.

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

Just put a burst in between the headlights. That's the important place you want to target anyway.

It is for this reason that the M82A1 CQ .50 BMG rifle is greatly preferable to the LWRCI IC-SPR 5.56x45mm rifle (AR-15 type) for engaging pursuing vehicles, assuming you are in a situation to fire it inside the cargo box. The Light Fifty kills cars, even if you don't have a clear shot at the driver because the headlights are blinding you.

Note, however, that all twelve of the AR-15 type rifles are semi-automatic, have 16" barrels and do not come with suppressors. They were bought commercially, from two different gun stores in Dallas, and have no NFA features. Two have NVD day/night scopes mounted, the rest red dot sights.

The guy who bought the guns had some guidelines from Raul, who has a basic understanding of firearms from a stint in military intelligence in Peru before coming to America and getting his MBA. The two LWRCI rifles with the fancy ATN day/night sights and the M82A1 QC were advertised online and Raul specifically told his agent to get them and then gave him a couple of preferred brands and models for the rest of the rifles. But the straw purchaser knows nothing about tactical shooting and so didn't buy any accessories he was not told explicitly to get.

Raul, Tomás, Eduardo and Igor already had their personal gear (though they are not bringing longarms they personally bought or that are registered to the PSC for which Tomás and Eduardo work). Tomás, Eduardo and Igor have high-quality electronic earmuffs, Raul himself has some very expensive electronic earpieces that are supposed to dampen gunfire, enhance other sounds and act as tactical headset for a radio (or cell phone). Some kind of very expensive TactiCool stuff that you can buy if you have access to your employer's emergency gold reserves and like to conserve your earbuds while remaining stylish.

The twelve sicarios, however, have whatever hearing protection that one of them could pick up at Walmart or equivalent (basically any store that was not a detour while driving between Dallas and Galveston), without seeming odd or memorable. The same for knee pads, gloves, slings, lights, tarps or other accessories they want, but didn't have on the flight. They all got dark hoodies, baseball caps and masks and should be wearing sensible footwear.

[Verjigorm]

Originally Posted by Icelander

It is for this reason that the M82A1 CQ .50 BMG rifle is greatly preferable to the LWRCI IC-SPR 5.56x45mm rifle (AR-15 type) for engaging pursuing vehicles, assuming you are in a situation to fire it inside the cargo box. The Light Fifty kills cars, even if you don't have a clear shot at the driver because the headlights are blinding you.

Note, however, that all twelve of the AR-15 type rifles are semi-automatic, have 16" barrels and do not come with suppressors. They were bought commercially, from two different gun stores in Dallas, and have no NFA features. Two have NVD day/night scopes mounted, the rest red dot sights.

The guy who bought the guns had some guidelines from Raul, who has a basic understanding of firearms from a stint in military intelligence in Peru before coming to America and getting his MBA. The two LWRCI rifles with the fancy ATN day/night sights and the M82A1 QC were advertised online and Raul specifically told his agent to get them and then gave him a couple of preferred brands and models for the rest of the rifles. But the straw purchaser knows nothing about tactical shooting and so didn't buy any accessories he was not told explicitly to get.

Raul, Tomás, Eduardo and Igor already had their personal gear (though they are not bringing longarms they personally bought or that are registered to the PSC for which Tomás and Eduardo work). Tomás, Eduardo and Igor have high-quality electronic earmuffs, Raul himself has some very expensive electronic earpieces that are supposed to dampen gunfire, enhance other sounds and act as tactical headset for a radio (or cell phone). Some kind of very expensive TactiCool stuff that you can buy if you have access to your employer's emergency gold reserves and like to conserve your earbuds while remaining stylish.

The twelve sicarios, however, have whatever hearing protection that one of them could pick up at Walmart or equivalent (basically any store that was not a detour while driving between Dallas and Galveston), without seeming odd or memorable. The same for knee pads, gloves, slings, lights, tarps or other accessories they want, but didn't have on the flight. They all got dark hoodies, baseball caps and masks and should be wearing sensible footwear.

All of this looks good, Thugh i wouldn't mind a 7.62 NATO mixed in there. It's more than enough to kill civilian vehicles, and it's lighter and cheaper to buy.