Question: Using D20 Stats with GURPS Character Creation

[Elliander]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

Looking at the "Spheres of Power" kickstarter, I don't see how you're going to combine that with any edition of Shadowrun.

Well, the only major mechanics I was looking at were the Movement Point system (so I would measure everything in feet unless in an Urban situation and then on the fly convert to movement points), and Cybernetics rules such as "Essence" where magical ability takes a hit by having implants since there is less life energy. For spells I was just going to bench mark what the players want and write something up that is comparable.

Originally Posted by Dalillama

Since the materia are going to be the source of the magic (as I understand you), and are basically pieces of equipment it sounds like you might want to introduce a set of M/H skills called e.g. "Alteration Materia", "Mind Materia" etc, and require a leveled advantage like magery to unlock more advanced uses of the materia in question. The easiest way to put Spell Points into GURPS would be to either have the devices require FP to use or allow people to buy an Energy Reserve that the materia will draw on.

Actually, Fatigue Points could work quite nicely with the way the mechanics work. In Final Fantasy it is explained that "To use a Materia's power a shock triggered by the user's mind is required. As a result the user's mind is weakened and frequent use of Materia without rest taxes their stamina."

Originally Posted by Dalillama

There's a huge load of D20 monsters here.

Thanks, but again I am quite a bit more familiar with combat mechanics of D20 systems and have quite a bit more to work with there.

Originally Posted by Dalillama

I strongly suspect you're wrong.

OK, can someone please explain that concept to me? Because how can it possibly be more difficult to modify a total of 6 characters than EVERY other character in the game? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, and it's not like anyone has pointed out what a full conversion even means since those strengths and weaknesses don't exist in other systems at all.

Originally Posted by johndallman

Your postings don't describe specific GURPS mechanics that you want to use. You might, for example, be wanting to use the Technology Level system, but you haven't said so.

As I explained, this is not as simple as saying "High Technology" because I am combining multiple environments. As I said, this will be both Tech Level 10 and Tech Level 4 areas. Magic will be based on items, and players will be able to swap them out like any other piece of equipment.

.......

Look, I REALLLLY don't want to take the time to go over every little detail of the campaign and I feel I am getting sidetracked by everyone trying to push me into using only one system or another.

[Elliander]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

I'm assuming that you are using a predefined setting that you've bought or that you are using a setting built from various pieces.

Yes and No. I am building an entire city from scratch along with all the characters and scenarios in it. That city will be placed within a larger setting that someone else built.

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

I've found it much easier, in my experience, to translate monsters and simple NPCS to GURPS than the other way around.

Look, I appreciate the suggestions, but this is really getting frustrating. I asked a few very simple questions, and EVERYONE is getting off on these tangents about what they think I should do without actually ANSWERING. And the most frustrating part is that these extra suggestions don't even have any real answers to them.

For example, one suggestion said I should convert the characters that aren't even created yet from Gurps, but say how that would even work. Other suggestions said I should convert all the monsters, but again, didn't say how that would work either. Everyone has an idea about what they think I should be doing, but how about just giving me the tools I need to make that decision on my own?

I JUST want to use GURPS as a Character base, strip out the Magic system, use an alternate system. That's it.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Elliander

I explained that in a previous comment. If you need a full campaign scenario synopsis I can provide it though. Suffice to say, it just seems like it would be easier to adjust character creation to suit D20 adversaries than to modify every single monster I would send against the players.

It'd probably be easier to go the other way, modifying the monsters to fit the characters. Or simply using monsters that are already statted out.

I really don't think that merging the rules of Pathfinder and GURPS is going to end up well for you. If you're going to insist upon going that way anyways, good luck - you're going to need it.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Elliander

OK, can someone please explain that concept to me? Because how can it possibly be more difficult to modify a total of 6 characters than EVERY other character in the game? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, and it's not like anyone has pointed out what a full conversion even means since those strengths and weaknesses don't exist in other systems at all.

NPCs and monsters don't require (or usually use) CP; they're simply given relevant stats, abilities, etc.

In other words, they don't use the normal character creation process that PCs utilize.

Also, simply using one set of rules and converting the spirit of the creatures/etc of one rule set/setting into another rule set/setting means a lot less work, as you don't need exact equivalencies or need to worry so much about game balance -a s you're very, very unlikely to be able to maintain game balance by merging multiple rule sets together.

[Elliander]

Originally Posted by Anders

One rule-of-thumb I've seen floating around is that to convert a stat from GURPS to D&D the D&D stat is equal to a GURPS stat of 10 + D&D stat bonus. So D&D Str 18 (+4) is equal to GURPS ST 14 (10+4).

So in essence, when converting from Gurps to D&D, for every 1 point over 10 in Gurps the character gets 2 points in D&D?

Originally Posted by Ejidoth

Way way back, when teaching some of my group GURPS, I worked out some level conversions between GURPS, d20, and World of Darkness stuff.

I'm a bit confused by the ranges. They look good for converting an existing character, but what about a character that doesn't exist yet? A range of values wouldn't really be helpful in that scenario.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Elliander

Look, I appreciate the suggestions, but this is really getting frustrating. I asked a few very simple questions, and EVERYONE is getting off on these tangents about what they think I should do without actually ANSWERING. And the most frustrating part is that these extra suggestions don't even have any real answers to them.

That would be because what you're actually trying to do is extremely difficult to do well and looks like something that'll end very badly; we're trying to suggest ways to make it more likely to succeed.

For example, one suggestion said I should convert the characters that aren't even created yet from Gurps, but say how that would even work. Other suggestions said I should convert all the monsters, but again, didn't say how that would work either. Everyone has an idea about what they think I should be doing, but how about just giving me the tools I need to make that decision on my own?

Because nobody has developed those tools before and the developing of them is what looks to be the most difficult part, fraught with danger.

Converting D&D characters or monsters into GURPS is fairly easy; just use them as a guideline and ignore trying to get mechanical accuracy. Converting GURPS characters to D&D is pretty hard, and I don't know of any way to do so well.

EDIT: Rather than using GURPS at all, if you want to maintain D20 stuff I'd suggest looking at True20 or Mutants and Masterminds (both games are somewhat similar); they use a point-buy system but are d20-based games that create D&D-like stats. I'm not sure how well they'd handle actual ye olde D&D monsters, though - you'd probably still need to convert them, or convert the True20 characters, but either way most of the work would be done for you.

[Elliander]

Originally Posted by Langy

I really don't think that merging the rules of Pathfinder and GURPS is going to end up well for you.

I don't want to "merge rules" I want to remove a part of the system and replace it with another, like I said multiple times now.

One of the main reasons I chose Gurps as a base is because characters don't have classes, which makes it much easier to strip out one part of the mechanics.

I would be open to, instead, keeping the stats in the Gurps form and then modifying how the Magic system is used, but I am not going to be using the Gurps Magic system in this campaign.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Elliander

I don't want to "merge rules" I want to remove a part of the system and replace it with another, like I said multiple times now.

Using one part of one system and another part of another system is 'merging rules', in my opinion, as there are conflicting aspects - rules don't usually exist in a vacuum. The D&D magic system, for example, relies upon the range of HP that D&D characters have and, more importantly, the character level of the casters. Both of those would need to be altered in a GURPS-like system.

One of the main reasons I chose Gurps as a base is because characters don't have classes, which makes it much easier to strip out one part of the mechanics.

I would be open to, instead, keeping the stats in the Gurps form and then modifying how the Magic system is used, but I am not going to be using the Gurps Magic system in this campaign.[/QUOTE]

That'd probably be easier - the default GURPS Magic system isn't very fun in my opinion. What do you want out of a magic system? You could potentially utilize one of the variant magic systems that GURPS has published without doing much in the way of work; I'm not sure how you'd utilize the D&D magic system, however. There are ways to create something similar to it in GURPS, but just using the D&D system wholesale will be difficult.

[Elliander]

Originally Posted by Langy

Using one part of one system and another part of another system is 'merging rules', in my opinion, as there are conflicting aspects - rules don't usually exist in a vacuum. The D&D magic system, for example, relies upon the range of HP that D&D characters have and, more importantly, the character level of the casters. Both of those would need to be altered in a GURPS-like system.

That'd probably be easier - the default GURPS Magic system isn't very fun in my opinion. What do you want out of a magic system? You could potentially utilize one of the variant magic systems that GURPS has published without doing much in the way of work; I'm not sure how you'd utilize the D&D magic system, however. There are ways to create something similar to it in GURPS, but just using the D&D system wholesale will be difficult.

I'm not using D&D Magic system. I'm creating a new Magic system inspired by FF7 and based on Spheres of Power which is in turn based on Pathfinder which is in turn based on D&D.

In this particular case, the rules certainly exist in an "almost" vacuum. On the contrary, I specifically chose Gurps because I fully recognized that for what I wanted to do a D&D base would not have worked out well at all.

Also, one of the reasons why I wanted to use a movement point system instead of "feet" or "yards" was that I could add additional costs to types of spells and actions to help with balance.

As an additional problem, how are the rules for Cybernetics in Gurps as compared to Shadowrun?

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Elliander

OK, can someone please explain that concept to me? Because how can it possibly be more difficult to modify a total of 6 characters than EVERY other character in the game? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, and it's not like anyone has pointed out what a full conversion even means since those strengths and weaknesses don't exist in other systems at all.

Because the six PCs are usually going to be the most highly detailed things in the entire setting. How can it be easier to buy two shoes than to carpet one planet?

Edit: I realized after posting that that could be taken as insulting, which I didn't intend. Simply that, no matter what the GM thinks about how awesome his setting or story is, the game is going to be about the PCs. They are going to have the most thought put into them, and changes in character creation are usually going to be the most difficult and complicated to implement. Most PCs are going to be complex, detailed characters, while most NPCs and monsters are going to be only a few stats (such as attack skill, damage, defenses, armor, and hit points).