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Old 06-15-2021, 07:12 AM   #11
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Question about Vampire Victims & Regeneration

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Originally Posted by Kesendeja View Post
Here's another one I hope you can help me with. How many hit points will losing a pint of blood cost?
I explored some of that here, and ultimately decided the simplest way to handle it was to decouple blood from HP, tracking it and the effects of blood loss on their own.
EDIT: For BP-pint equivalency, every multiple of full BP corresponds to 5% of the character's total blood volume. For an HP 10 character, BP is 5, so each BP is 1% of their total blood volume. An average person has about 10 pints, so every 10 BP is 1 pint. It's up to you if a character with higher BP actually has more blood, or simply bleeds more slowly; if going with the latter interpretation, you may want to say such characters have more "concentrated" blood, such that 10 BP is equivalent to a pint (for purposes of transfusions, feeding vampires, etc), even if it actually takes up less volume (although for transfusions you may need to water it down a bit).

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Originally Posted by Balor Patch View Post
Losing 1 pint only feels like a couple of FP lost. On the other hand, an average person has 10 pints and no HT roll will keep them alive without blood, so from that viewpoint getting to -5xHP is 6 HP each. I have no idea if losing 4 pints would realistically trigger a death check.
For a typical person, losing 4 pints is a Class IV hemorrhage, which is fatal without immediate medical assistance. Due to the way blood loss works, you can't really work out a blood-to-HP equivalency. Unless you want to track blood separately (as I ultimately opted to in the linked thread), you're either looking at extreme HP loss for missing only 1 pint of blood (12 HP per pint for a typical person, such that 50% blood loss is instantly fatal) or some sort of ramping-up effect of blood loss (an option would be -1 HP for missing 1 pint, -3 for missing 2 pints, -10 for missing 3, -30 for 4, and -100 for 5).
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Last edited by Varyon; 06-15-2021 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 06-15-2021, 08:29 AM   #12
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Question about Vampire Victims & Regeneration

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post

For a typical person, losing 4 pints is a Class IV hemorrhage, which is fatal without immediate medical assistance. .
This leads you back to the vampire biology/metaphysics I was speaking of. How much blood does the vampire need? That's highly variable.

At one extreme the vamp isn't actually "feeding" on the blood. He's magically stealing "life force" from a living being and the blood is largely symbolic with no great amount required. However stored blood may not work at all and animal blood might be inferior and artifical substitutes aren't even possible.

At the other extreme the vampire'as signature Disadvantage is Restricted Diet:Blood Only. He uses the normal food and liquid requirements except it all has to be blood (or something close to it by scientific measurements). Stored, animal and artificiial blood should be fine as this is science. However, he's going to need those 4 pints just to get his daily hydration unless he has Reduced Consumption. A GM might well rule that those 4 pints have enough solids to count as the required food as well.

Then of course there are possible requirements somewhere in the middle of these two extremes.
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Old 06-16-2021, 11:50 PM   #13
Gef
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA
Default Re: Question about Vampire Victims & Regeneration

Here's a template from my old fantasy game with a similar concept, though I gave higher HP, and Very Rapid Healing without any limitation, to make them blood banks:

Hemodrone
‑7 points
Bred by generations of blood mages to be the ultimate slaves, hemodrones are utterly subservient, easy keepers, strong manual laborers, and hardy walking blood banks. Striking ST +1 (5), Lift ST +2 (6), HP +5 (10), IQ‑1 (‑20), HT+2 (20), Speed ‑½ (‑10), High Pain Threshold (10), Reduced Consumption 2 (Cast Iron Stomach ‑50%; 2), Resistant +3 to Disease (5), Temperature Tolerance 2 (2), Very Rapid Healing (15), Fat (‑3), Short Lifespan (‑10), Slave Mentality (‑40), Unattractive (‑4). They are found mainly in societies dominated by blood mages and vampires, where they are nothing more than valuable property and own none themselves (Social Stigma and Dead Broke, but these would come from a cultural lens instead of a racial template).
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Old 06-17-2021, 09:34 AM   #14
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Question about Vampire Victims & Regeneration

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Originally Posted by Gef View Post
Here's a template from my old fantasy game with a similar concept, though I gave higher HP, and Very Rapid Healing without any limitation, to make them blood banks:

Hemodrone
‑7 points
Bred by generations of blood mages to be the ultimate slaves, hemodrones are utterly subservient, easy keepers, strong manual laborers, and hardy walking blood banks. Striking ST +1 (5), Lift ST +2 (6), HP +5 (10),).
Why isn't this ST+1, Lifting ST+1 and HP+4? Or even just Lift ST+2 and HP+5. Nobody builds Striking ST into slave races.

As another note Bio-tech wouldn't allow you to breed anything but ST up to +2 with regular humans. You'd have t use gene-altering magic to get your template.
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Old 06-17-2021, 11:53 AM   #15
Prince Charon
 
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Default Re: Question about Vampire Victims & Regeneration

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Why isn't this ST+1, Lifting ST+1 and HP+4? Or even just Lift ST+2 and HP+5. Nobody builds Striking ST into slave races.
They do if they're planning to use them as gladiators and janissaries or similar.
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Old 06-17-2021, 04:12 PM   #16
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Question about Vampire Victims & Regeneration

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Originally Posted by Kesendeja View Post
My question is what would be the modifier "Only for blood loss" be for regeneration?
MA47 prices "limited, crushing" or "limited, unarmed" as -40% if you can only regenerate HP lost to those types of damages. I figure they're the same because "unarmed" also covers non-crushing attacks via Claws or Sharp Teeth (not sure about Strikers) just as long as it's not a weapon (not sure about Innate Attack either...) while "crushing" covers unarmed crushing and armed crushing (bo staff, etc)

-40% for Crushing is also what we see for Damage Resistance on B46 classed as "Common" which implies you can just borrow the values used for DR to swap over to Regeneration.

Unfortunately there isn't exactly a "DR against blood loss" since that's HP loss not subject to "basic damage" and similar (it's straight to injury) but I guess the question we should ask is: how rare is it to bleed?

Powers classifies "injury" as "very common" requiring at least 1 HP lost to any source. I expect "blood loss" would be at least one step rare (common instead of very common) if not moreso (occasional -60 or rare -80)

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
No Blood is worth [5]. I believe No Blood (Not Immune to Blood-Borne Toxins) is worth [3]. That implies blood that instantly regenerates might be worth [2] - you're susceptible to both blood-borne toxins and blood chokes and the like, but are immune to bleeding to death.
Temporarily getting No Blood probably wouldn't cancel out any HP you already lost to bleeding, just prevent further bleeding.

One of the downsides to No Blood is probably that you can't actually provide blood for purposes in which it might be useful, which is why Switchable on No Blood might help to swap that feature back and forth.

For "HP converts to blood" as a resource it really should be tracked as a resource, No Blood seems like it would remove a potential resource the same way "No FP" would. Largely beneficial except where you can't use yourself as fuel for abilities which call upon specific materials.

Sort of how like if a character is classified as a magically animated skeleton they can't make steaks out of their legs to feed their hungry friends like Wolverine or Deadpool or Hulk or Flash might be capable of in an emergency.

That part actually makes me wonder: should "I'm inedible" be assumed to be some kind of zero-point feature that they didn't bother to list in GURPS Magic undead templates, or could that possibly fall under one of the other traits?
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Old 06-17-2021, 09:42 PM   #17
Gef
 
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Default Re: Question about Vampire Victims & Regeneration

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Why isn't this ST+1, Lifting ST+1 and HP+4?
It is, sorry.
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Old 06-17-2021, 09:45 PM   #18
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Question about Vampire Victims & Regeneration

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It is, sorry.
Hey, I wasn't offended. Just rather puzzled.
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