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Old 07-10-2021, 01:22 AM   #11
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: How many Auto Manufacturers are there in NA?

Not seeing why your Pursuit models have rear weapons. Surely by definition you are planning to be behind your targets?

Would it not make more sense to up your front offense (and/or your front or under defence or HC to handle the anticipated rear weapons and DWs of your target)?

You don't need that much speed if you are intending to allow your target to approach from the rear. This isn't an invalid method if we assume CW cops are able to position rolling road blocks ahead of a bike threat. It won't kill them as it's too easy to avoid DWs but it can force them to slow down (so your pursuit or even normal patrol vehicle can catch up) or turn around and go back into the town they just attacked (or more likely take the first opportunity to go off-road).
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Old 07-10-2021, 11:23 AM   #12
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Default Re: How many Auto Manufacturers are there in NA?

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Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
That wouldn't catch any of my bikes :)

In my view a pursuit special would need the same 15 default ACC that my bikes have with HTM's to boot. It needs a top speed well over 100. If it doesn't have these then it isn't really a pursuit vehicle.
Will this catch your bikes?

RCMP Interceptor “Coyote” [Original Custom]

Carbon-Aluminum framed Luxury, Extra heavy Chassis, Heavy Suspension, Platinum Catalysts and Superconductor Thundercat, Fireproof Solid Tires, Driver, 2 Passengers, Vulcan Machine Gun Front with one extra magazine, Paired linked Spike Dropper rear, 10 pts. Fireproof Armoured Hubs, 10 pts. Fireproof Wheelguards, No Paint Windshield, High Res Computer, Spike Dropper Link, Long Distance Radio, Rescue Kit, Fireproof Armour Front: 35, Right: 25, Left: 25, Back: 35, Top: 35, Underbody: 20, HC 3, 6,600 lbs, Acceleration: 15 MPH, Top Speed: 192.5 mph, Government price $ 60,000, AADA value $ 58,100
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Last edited by Daimyo_Shi; 07-14-2021 at 09:05 PM. Reason: Wrong Top Speed
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Old 07-10-2021, 05:20 PM   #13
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Default Re: How many Auto Manufacturers are there in NA?

I am probably not being fair.

A car that is capable of catching a fast bike, probably doesn't have the means to do anything about it if they did. Any car that can is going to be so expensive an equivalent value in bikes (played intelligently) should be able to over match it.

I am therefore questioning the whole pursuit car idea. Sure it is very Mad Max, but Max's opponents didn't have cycle mounted weapons.
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Old 07-10-2021, 06:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: How many Auto Manufacturers are there in NA?

Early Pursuit Car: Lux.; XH ch.; Hv. Su.; T-cat PP [6,700 PF]; 4x Sol. tire; Dr. 4x MG (L) [F]; 2x MD (L) [1 ea. L, R]; Cargo [usu. 1x Pas.]; Spoiler; Radar. A: 90 pts. P [F, B: 20; L, R: 15; T, U: 10]. $29,700; 6,600 lbs. Acc.: 15; TS: 182.5; HC: 3 (4 @ 60+).

These days: Airplanes with Cluster Bombs are *far* more efficient at Cycle Gang Removal. >:)
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Old 07-10-2021, 08:33 PM   #15
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Default Re: How many Auto Manufacturers are there in NA?

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Originally Posted by 43Supporter View Post
Early Pursuit Car: Lux.; XH ch.; Hv. Su.; T-cat PP [6,700 PF]; 4x Sol. tire; Dr. 4x MG (L) [F]; 2x MD (L) [1 ea. L, R]; Cargo [usu. 1x Pas.]; Spoiler; Radar. A: 90 pts. P [F, B: 20; L, R: 15; T, U: 10]. $29,700; 6,600 lbs. Acc.: 15; TS: 182.5; HC: 3 (4 @ 60+).

These days: Airplanes with Cluster Bombs are *far* more efficient at Cycle Gang Removal. >:)
Or Helicopters >:)
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Old 07-11-2021, 03:25 AM   #16
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Default Re: How many Auto Manufacturers are there in NA?

Agreed.

43 and I disagree on how effective air power is (and should be in CW) but it is certainly more effective than running after the bikers in a car.

The downside of planes and copters is the crippling capital costs (and in reality the maintenance costs should be crippling too). Conventional air power is thus likely to centred in wealthy communities which are less likely to be the target of biker raids.

In my game, a bike raid is 2d6 vehicles (mixed bikes and the odd trike or a pickup). These raid the outlying crops of small farming compounds. In a few hours they can gather 500-1000lb of fruit. They probably won't be noticed doing this and as it represents the output of less than half a dozen trees it will not significantly dent the farms viability. Each orange is worth about $1-5 depending on where you sell it.

These raiding parties are a subset of a larger force that is centred somewhere easily defensible (from air as well) in the county. There are plenty of ruined towns and cites to choose from. This force might number 100-300 individuals and about 1/3rd as many vehicles. It has some AA offence but prefers to hide under cover. It would require extended carpet bombing to significantly damage them or a small army. Most will be dispersed rather than destroyed and will regroup in another state.

Most farms will have static balloons for observation and some offence. These will be centred round the compound which will be protected by a berm perimeter surrounding a set of sturdy buildings linked by walls. There will be a central tower the base of which is a bunker. Most defences will be in the compound, and there will be a beaten zone 50 yards all around it. A small autogyro will be available within the compound for crop spraying and as an additional deterrent to raids. There will typically be 2d6 adults housed here.

The crops will be spread out within a mile of the compound. The fields (groves in my case) will have a wide deep ditch all round (for irrigation and to prevent vehicle access). A single bridge (on the side closest to the compound) provides vehicle access to the grove. This is visible from the compound and during the day there is a good chance it is monitored. It is gated and locked, but no-one expects this to be a deterrent to determined attack. The most valuable crops are placed closest to the compound.

The bikes are farmers too, they just farm farmers. If they predate too much they will kill the farm and likely bring about county level retaliation. After a week or two they will move in small groups to rendezvous in another county or state depending on the harvests. In winter they live off their surplus and tend not to move around. Some counties will actually negotiate acceptable quotas with gangs as it is cheaper in blood and treasure than trying to curb their impact by combat. Gangs are at their most dangerous in spring and summer as this is the growing season and farms are not easy targets. In these seasons they turn to the more traditional attacks on weak travellers and sometimes towns (supplemented by drug dealing). They tend to strike on a single day then immediately move on to another county to hide out for a few weeks. Their predations are more obvious during this time, but they tend to be hard to track. Any negotiated treaties are normally voided during this period and county forces (other corrupt ones) operate a shoot-to-kill policy that is reciprocated.

Spring and summer is when the recruits are sent out to be blooded ("Roaming"). They will go with a trusted sub-leader who is more experienced. They may go on expeditions lasting for weeks and not return to the base in that time. The sub-leader will know some places to make contact with the gang so they can regroup, but if he dies the recruits are on their own and won't be welcomed back even if they can find the gang again. This reduces the risk of infiltration. If they make more than they lose in repairs and replenishment by the end of the season they are made full members. If not they probably won't be coming back anyway. This frees the gang of useless mouths when there is less surplus to support them.

Bikes will be 60% standard bikes, 30% trikes and 10% support vehicles (support vehicles generally don't carry gang colours so they can be used for trading). Most vehicles will be shared between two gangers of the same rank and thus each has at least 1 passenger space (even if it is only a pillion). The recruits bikes run $2-3K, full members rate $5K and the leaders and sub leaders may go as high as $10K. The HQ holds the support vehicles under the control of the quartermaster and chief mechanic. Many vehicles will have part damaged components as salvage as a major aspect of bike gang life. Recruit bikes may be wholly jury-rigged to minimise the losses. They are also easily identifiable as gang vehicles. Part damaged body armour is common at the lower echelons. Most bikers have BA and also ABV (even if it is little more than rags).

There are more handguns in the gang than vehicle mounted weapons. Many sidecars have heavy weapons on pintles. A 2 space pintle can be placed to have an arc of fire like a side sponson at far less cost and weight. Laser guiding rockets (single shot or launchers) on tripods only requires a laser scope rather than a targeting laser so it becomes a cheaper upgrade (other than the tuning costs). Two laser guided AP HR fired from a stationary sidecar is a significant threat). Many recruit bikes when part of the main gang have cheap AP Mini Rocket weapons that are only used in mass barrages or at very close quarters for defence. When roaming they may have upgraded from salvage. Roughly 1/3 of the gang operates as mounted infantry and has no vehicle skill at all. Smoke and paint grenades are popular (every ganger carries at least two to cover extraction). Explosive grenades are only issued for dismounted engagements as the risk of collateral damage is too high. More exotic munitions are reserved for sale or use by the elites.

I could write lots more, but this is the blue print for bike gangs in my campaign.
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Old 07-11-2021, 10:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: How many Auto Manufacturers are there in NA?

The numbers I have so far have 48 Manufacturers that I can find some kind of Canon Reference to. Of course many don't have much more than an Ad and/or a AADA Vehicle Guide Reference with little reference of where they actually are based.
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Old 07-12-2021, 02:14 PM   #18
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Default Re: How many Auto Manufacturers are there in NA?

Simple reason - sometimes the cops have to run :) A HDFOJ will absolutely wreck a bike and not damage the road. The difference between a HDFOJ and a regular FOJ is huge - you need to cross two patches of flaming oil so you'll probably catch on fire. Bikes can't handle fire. The last thing you want is a police interceptor that can't extract itself from an ambush.

A HEAT BC will also gut most bikes in one shot, even ones with 10 points of CA around the engine or cyclist. Just fire at the 'side' of the bike.

Finally, the limiting factor for high-speed pursuit is handling class not top speed. A bike with a TS of 180 might hit that on a straight road with no debris, but how common is that?

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Not seeing why your Pursuit models have rear weapons. Surely by definition you are planning to be behind your targets?

.
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Old 07-12-2021, 02:54 PM   #19
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Default Re: How many Auto Manufacturers are there in NA?

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A HEAT BC will also gut most bikes in one shot, even ones with 10 points of CA around the engine or cyclist. Just fire at the 'side' of the bike.
And this is where Air Power makes bike-gangs extinct -- two words: "Cluster Bombs". (I have this as part of my old write-up on "The Death Of EDSEL"; part of EDSEL's problems is the indiscriminate nature of the CBs they use.)
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Old 07-12-2021, 03:27 PM   #20
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Default Re: How many Auto Manufacturers are there in NA?

Now we're playing rock paper scissors :)

A gang just needs bunch of peds with Stinger SAMs. 4-5 will end most choppers from just the D hazards - should be minus 12 HC from taking the hits. Best part is the chopper will probably be salvageable

The real counter for cycle gangs (not my design, props to Phoenix motors):

Combat Cycle 5 -- Medium Cycle, Off-Road suspension, Small Cycle power plant, 10-pt Fireproof CA (Power Plant), 2 Motorcycle Off-Road Heavy-Duty tires, Cycle Windshell w/5 pts extra Plastic armor, Cyclist w/10-pt CA, Machine Gun Front w/20 shots High-Density, Plastic Armor: F10, B9, 2 5-pt Cycle Wheelguards, Acceleration 5, Top Speed 105, HC 2 (3 @60mph), 1096 lbs., $4999

Quote:
Originally Posted by 43Supporter View Post
And this is where Air Power makes bike-gangs extinct -- two words: "Cluster Bombs". (I have this as part of my old write-up on "The Death Of EDSEL"; part of EDSEL's problems is the indiscriminate nature of the CBs they use.)
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