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Old 11-14-2018, 07:46 PM   #1
hcobb
 
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Default Is there a strong case for strong characters?

I don't see any point in putting more than ST 12 on a starting character and even that is only because of the light crossbow sniper.

The rest of the party should be ST 9 or less.
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:53 PM   #2
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Is there a strong case for strong characters?

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
I don't see any point in putting more than ST 12 on a starting character and even that is only because of the light crossbow sniper.

The rest of the party should be ST 9 or less.
Really?

I mean, I'll play Socratic counterpart for you if you like:

For arena characters:
To do more damage with weapons, and to be somewhat more durable.
To be able to cast another spell or two.

Experience and melee duel simulators bear out that fighters want at least ST 10, and 11-13 are the optimal values.

For actual campaign PCs, for the same reasons, and also for encumbrance, survivability, things that take ST rolls, and dealing with things that have armor.

And because GMs such as myself would tend to not let you start out beginning PCs with Expert talents, and also house rules that don't tempt you with 500+ XP in future savings for every point of IQ they start with.

And because such GMs also have house rules reducing the uber-ness of sha-ken, whips, bolas, lassos...
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:35 AM   #3
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Is there a strong case for strong characters?

A lot of the discussion in this thread concerns combatants whose attacks would mostly be neutralized with good armor (say, 5 points total). The only reliable way to get at a target like that with something other than a charge attack is to be stronger than ST 9. A combatant with ST 11 DX 13(9), chainmail, a large shield and a suitable weapon has always been a combination that is tough for lightly armed combatants to go after.
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:46 AM   #4
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Is there a strong case for strong characters?

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
A combatant with ST 11 DX 13(9), chainmail, a large shield and a suitable weapon has always been a combination that is tough for lightly armed combatants to go after.
The problem is that there are too many auto-trip options ITL.
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Old 11-15-2018, 01:49 PM   #5
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Is there a strong case for strong characters?

Perhaps, but I don't see how tripping someone with a lasso helps you win a fight if you don't have a way to hurt them while they are standing up.
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Old 11-15-2018, 01:57 PM   #6
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Is there a strong case for strong characters?

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Perhaps, but I don't see how tripping someone with a lasso helps you win a fight if you don't have a way to hurt them while they are standing up.
Shrewd javelin charge on the downed for 3d, shields don't count.
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Old 11-15-2018, 02:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: Is there a strong case for strong characters?

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
A lot of the discussion in this thread concerns combatants whose attacks would mostly be neutralized with good armor (say, 5 points total). The only reliable way to get at a target like that with something other than a charge attack is to be stronger than ST 9. A combatant with ST 11 DX 13(9), chainmail, a large shield and a suitable weapon has always been a combination that is tough for lightly armed combatants to go after.
I agree that at low attribute totals, low-ST high-skill figures can't penetrate high armor. But with the new Expertise/Mastery rules and changes to old rules like Two Weapons talent, they can safely impede the enemy to a surprising degree, so the ST12 crossbows in the party take out threats.

As the characters progress, it looks like from the new 1v1 simulator results that fast, low-ST, high-skill weapon masters now dominate. As zot said, a 40pt fencing master wields two weapons each with battleaxe levels of damage. These are figures that couldn't exist in the old rules.

I think the new ITL rules and talents have shifted the balance towards a new type of low ST fighter.
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