Appropriate gear for TL3 soldiers

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Whyte

Now, I'd not see the Struggling people being mustered almost ever in a relatively peaceful kingdom.

If Struggling represents the typical villager (as IIRC Fantasy suggests) then I don't see how you can't and still have a muster at all. Even if we go with the 35% number.

In borderlands they might still be in use, as in a more clannish territories where there is still a tradition of raiding and mobilizing a good chunk of the manpower of the clan all at once.

Like I said, it was absolutely true in Ireland. Shane O'Neil mobilized every able-bodied clansman and that wasn't especially remarkable at the time, it's just an incident that I know for sure happened.

[Whyte]

I think the percentage of the manpower being called to muster depends a lot on the situation and the culture and the expected length of the campaign. Get the clansmen of one valley together to go and hammer the neighbors in a few days, sure. Bring the peasantry of the kingdom together, with a month's travel to get there, and another to get to the warzone, is simply impossible, IMHO.

If we look at the Anglo-Saxon Fyrd, the usual figure is 1 man / 5 hides of land, about 150 - 200 acres. 5 hides of land tended to make one a thegn, too. As a comparison, a peasant tended to have 20 - 40 acres and a yeoman 30 - 120 acres. So this would definitely not be a struggling peasant. I think at least Average wealth is called for.

In 1066, the numbers of combatants in the Anglo-Saxon Fyrd are somewhat uncertain, but a couple tens of thousands seem reasonable. Given that the population of England in 1086 is estimated to be 1 million, this would mean that a few percent of the total population was involved. Which, I think, is already a very impressive muster for an Early Medieval Kingdom.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Whyte

Bring the peasantry of the kingdom together, with a month's travel to get there, and another to get to the warzone, is simply impossible, IMHO.

Irish kern fought as mercenaries on the continent, redshanks and all.

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

If you want to expand beyond the study of weapons and warfare (which are certainly very important fields), and get a look at the ideological systems that upheld royal power, I heartily recommend this book as a starting point:


http://www.amazon.com/The-Kings-Bodi.../dp/0691017042

More has been written on the subject of kingship since then, but the ideas in this book are still widely considered relevant by most medievalists, IME.

That is a good point to my mind.

I also would add an additional recommendation, such as Sacred Royalty: From the Pharaoh to the Most Christian King.

[Whyte]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Irish kern fought as mercenaries on the continent, redshanks and all.

And I am willing to bet that the mercenary contingent of kerns was not nearly 100% of the available peasantry in Ireland. :)

If you have a couple of struggling folk acting as mercenaries, all fine and well. I don't have problem with that at all. All I am saying is that you cannot have every able-bodied man of the Kingdom in the army for months without having the economy implode. And if you can only call up a fraction of the populace, why not call up the guys who have better weapons and free time to practice with them? :)

Anyway, these classifications give us a hint on the actual equipment, assuming at maximum ~20% of starting wealth (hunter's bow would be an exception, since otherwise they'd need to be really rich). I am using Basic Set here...

Struggling: cheap large knife ($16), cheap spear ($16), shoes ($40) and probably that's it. Shields if there is a more of a warrior tradition and every man fights. Otherwise, they probably don't have a Shield skill anyway. Hunters would have their bows (probably regular or short).

Average: spear ($40), cheap large knife ($16), medium shield ($60), leather helm ($20), padded cloth torso ($30), shoes ($40) = $206
(Archers would get longbows, hatchets, knives and shoes.)

Comfortable: spear ($40), cheap large knife ($16), medium shield ($60), mail shirt ($150), pot helm ($100), shoes ($40) = $406

Wealthy: spear ($40), cheap thrusting broadsword ($240), cheap large knife ($16), medium shield ($60), mail hauberk ($230), mail sleeves ($70), mail coif ($55), pot helm ($100), mail leggings ($110), boots ($80) = $1001

Mercenaries and other professional soldiers (as opposed to part-time farmer-soldiers) could do with one lower wealth level: a comfortable mercenary could be armored head to toe with mail and still have money left over for backpacks and other 'adventuring' gear.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Whyte

And I am willing to bet that the mercenary contingent of kerns was not nearly 100% of the available peasantry in Ireland. :)

I meant that at least from impoverished and backward regions light infantry can be Struggling or Poor. Kerns couldn't even afford shoes. In Ireland they were generally tenant farmers that shared a plot with family.

[Whyte]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I meant that at least from impoverished and backward regions light infantry can be Struggling or Poor. Kerns couldn't even afford shoes. In Ireland they were generally tenant farmers that shared a plot with family.

I got your meaning now. Yep, I have no problem with that. If you need men and all you have is Kerns, then Kerns it is. I am willing to bet that the Kern mercenaries cost much less in wages than better equipped mercenaries, too.

My comments were more directed to the idea of a medieval (fantasy) kingdom similar to England. I am having very hard time coming up with examples of there being a total muster of all able-bodied men on the scale of the whole Kingdom (modern times are different, of course). More common, like others have already stated previously on this thread, was to raise smaller groups or focus the muster on the specific area of operations.

[Whyte]

Also, it comes to mind that some of the poorly armed people in the army might not have been raised by their lord, but have joined up in the hopes of loot. If they are not costing the commander anything, why say no to some free arrowfodder?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Whyte

I got your meaning now. Yep, I have no problem with that. If you need men and all you have is Kerns, then Kerns it is. I am willing to bet that the Kern mercenaries cost much less in wages than better equipped mercenaries, too.

As I understand it you generally hired Gallowglass and Kern as heavy infantry with light infantry support.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Whyte

Also, it comes to mind that some of the poorly armed people in the army might not have been raised by their lord, but have joined up in the hopes of loot. If they are not costing the commander anything, why say no to some free arrowfodder?

Historically, because they ate up food that your valuable men could be eating. When everyone is living off the land, every single person that you allow to travel with your army makes it more difficult and time-consuming to feed.

Granted, a lot of commanders, then and now, had difficulty grasping the idea that having more men might not always be a good thing. So they'd allow all sorts of camp followers and less-than-useful light infantry and light cavalry to tag along.