New Reality Seeds

[ericthered]

If you want something reasonably likely with some involved after effects, have the United Kingdom keep the southern colonies (The Carolinas on down) at the end of the American revolution. Considerations of this change include:

• The pressure on the five civilized tribes is greatly reduced, and as presumptive british allies, they may be propped up for some time to come
• The British and Americans have an actual serious border (No one invades through vermont).
• The Slave Question is now tied to British slave policy (though Virginia will see some issues there as well, its now separated from its traditional support)
• The War of 1812 will either not happen, or be a LOT more serious.
• United states Westward expansion is severly checked.
• What happens to new orleans is an interesting question.

How would you use this alternate? would you use this alternate?

[TGLS]

Well, if I would use it, I think there's a few ways to take it:

A) Rising tensions in the Carolinas and Georgia lead to a second revolution. Perhaps over parliamentary legislation against slavery, perhaps as a do-over of the American Revolution (i.e. against the colonial oligarchy), perhaps sort of like Haiti (i.e. power struggle between rich whites and poor whites leads to anarchy and slave revolt).

B) Tensions rise over settlement in the territories west of the Royal Proclamation line. Depending on the way the alternative peace is settled, any and all territories may be in a limbo state that's bound to lead in to another conflict.

C) Slavery may be wound down in the United States because of Virginia's soil exhaustion and lack of advantage in Congress. A slow death may see slaveholders planning to relocate or sell their slaves to the British territories. This could cause strains with the loyalists, or the PCs could plot to free the slaves along the way.

D) Louisiana as Texas. Napoleon (or the leader of whoever leads France or Spain) decides to help stave off a British take over of the territory, supports the settlement of Americans into the Louisiana Territory. This plays out roughly the same way as Americans in Texas.

In my view, there's still a few open questions that need to be answered to help flesh out the timeline. Specifically:
- Why does this happen? Better southern strategy? No foreign support? The British decide to be less generous in peace?
- Does Spain still get Florida?
- Does the French Revolution still happen? Are the Latin American revolutionaries as inspired?
- Do the British get rid of slavery at the same time as they did historically? Do they adjust their colonial policy faster or slower?

[Astromancer]

I sincerely doubt that, if Britain retains control of the Carolinas and Georgia, that Parliament would vote against slavery. It wasn't until the economic collapse of the Caribbean sugar trade that the Sugar Interests loss enough power to allow such things as, Parliamentary Reform, Catholic Emancipation, or Abolition (as it was Parliament was required to give reparations to the Slave Owners, including forcing the formerly enslaved people to work long hours for their former enslavers.)

If Eli Whitney invents the Cotton Gin in this world, the British Parliament would never challenge their new gold mine. Also the Southern Plantation interest would buy Rotten Boroughs and Peerages and take over Parliament.

[ericthered]

Why did it happen? Better southern strategy, essentially. Key battles going the other way, better support of loyalist militias, and so forth. Control of the port of Charleston would have made a big difference.

Most of the rest of the war is assumed to go much the same. Possession of Florida is... very interesting. And relevant. giving spain west florida and Great Britain east Florida might by appropriate.

I'd say the French Revolution still occurs.

The history of Abolition is going to be radically changed. I'm not sure how much this slows down England's abolition... and a world where england does not oppose slavery is going to be very different. I can believe the money staving off abolition... but I don't know that it can stave off the chartists, and they'll eventually take down slavery... but its a good question. I don't have a quick answer. My assumption was that English Abolition is slowed down, and is going to be messier.

Louisiana as Texas sounds fun. The British might decide to invade.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

If Eli Whitney invents the Cotton Gin in this world, the British Parliament would never challenge their new gold mine. Also the Southern Plantation interest would buy Rotten Boroughs and Peerages and take over Parliament.

There aren't enough rotten boroughs to take over Parliament. One of the reasons nobody was overly concerned about fixing them is that they didn't do much damage. And indeed the resulting composition of Parliament wasn't actually a bad representation of the relative importance of the various power groups. Even if there were more, there's no way proper English society is going to accept southern Colonials as equals, let alone allow them [dominance].

And honestly, southern plantation interests were not all [that] rich, even after the cotton gin, particularly compared to all the other wealth coming into England. So they couldn't outbid everybody else either.

Parliament might hesitate to free three times as many slaves as they actually did in 1833, but I doubt it would be out of any particular concern for their colonial masters. They might do it anyway.

Note BTW that Whitney certainly does not invent the cotton gin in this timeline. Somebody else might, but Whitney was a Massachusetts native, and only involved with southern plantations because he took a job as a tutor in South Carolina when his college funds ran out, and the widow of a Revolutionary War hero invited him to visit hers in Georgia.

[Astromancer]

Try this one.

There is a grain blight in Eurasia in the late 1930s. All of Europe is deficient in grain starting in 1937. Neither Hitler nor Stalin can afford to get into a war when they can't control the sea lanes. The Blight is gone in 1942. Germany's fiscal measures have failed (Hitler had to fight when he did in order to avoid an economic crisis).

This could be a much smaller WWII. A lost Centrum agent on this Q5 world thinks that would be best. Meanwhile, a Yakuza group (one which combines ultra nationalism with crime) feels that Japan needs to wait for a better time to strike. The Greater East Asian Co-Posperity Sphere needs careful building.

The PC are from Homeline trying to prevent massive outworld interference.

[Astromancer]

Try this one.

On this Q6 Low Mana parallel the Lamasaries of Tibet actually did achieve breakthroughs in mental power. Certain Lamas, acting on visions of the future, decide that Tibet has no viable future. They decide that they need to leave and take the Tibetan people with them. That was in 1925.

There is a basic split in the Lamas. Most of the Lamas go to the Western United States. About 30% of the Lamas go to Germany. Both groups use mental powers to get around immigration controls. The Lamas going to America take almost all the Tibetan people with them.

At first the Lamas use their powers to fly under the radar (easier in the USA because of both open spaces and a much smaller government). But the Lamas do reveal themselves. A group of Lamas heal FDR soon after his election to the presidency. The Lamas in Germany reveal themselves to Hitler.

Basically, I'm setting up a WWII scenario where the PCs are Psions with high level martial arts. The Germans also have superagents.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Basically, I'm setting up a WWII scenario where the PCs are Psions with high level martial arts. The Germans also have superagents.

So you are postulating a bunch of Tibetan mystics are willing and able to alter the course of the war between superpowers, but not defend their homeland from China?

Mind you the idea works OK if only a small fraction of Tibetans make the exodus. Perhaps these are the ones kicked out as useless or untrustworthy by the ascended masters who have held the entire country closed off from the world for the last few decades. All the difference that makes is there are not so many of them (all the more motive to seek native converts/agents, always a plot favorite that the Westerner with mysterious Asian training), and nobody can invade Tibet to change the Great Game before the war kicks off, or loot it for secrets they might have left behind.

Well, and I guess that your agents might have a secret agenda to grow strong enough to challenge the masters at home who ejected them - I can't see how that would matter....

[Astromancer]

Malloyd, my assumption is that the Lamas decided that Tibet wasn't able to provide for and support the Tibetan people especially with the Chinese determined to rule over Tibet. Also the Lamas wanted to achieve conditions where they could focus on their spiritual development rather than national defense. Once the war is over the Lamasaries can focus on teaching and spirituality.

[Astromancer]

Telstar

This Q6 parallel got its designation because the first explorers were having a quietly shocked lunch at a diner in Cape Canaveral and the Tornadoes song Telstar played on the radio. It was totally appropriate.

Telstar is a major mystery to Homeline (and also to their rivals). Until the local year 1942, Telstar was a typical echo of Homeline. Suddenly the Tech Level jumped forward. In 1943 Jets, fighters and bombers, as well as transistors, started coming off US assembly lines. WWII was over by New Year's Eve 1944.

But it wasn't just jets and walkie-talkies. The USA had transitioned to Tech Level 8 by 1950. Just the industrial retooling for that happening in a mere five years should have been impossible.

By 1960 the technology in the West, Japan, and South Korea, was about were it was on Homeline in
2015. The rest of the world is between ten to twenty years behind the West. At least from a Homeline perspective. To the locals all this is normal.

Culturally this world seems a lot like the early 1960s on Homeline. The local year is 1964 (a known World Jumpper seems to have put Lee Harvey Oswald in the hospital in early November, so Kennedy is alive). Rock and Roll rules the airwaves and most of the songs are the same. The Civil Rights Movement is in the headlines and demanding progress. But America and Russia have moonbases and are planning missions to Mars. You can buy DVDs of that wild new British Sci Fi show online or join the Beatles fanclub (they say Ed Sullivan is planning to get the boys from Liverpool on his show) also online.

Basically, Homeline wants answers in a wild and strange reworking of the 1960s (which was plenty strange enough to begin with). The Cabal and Centrum want answers too. And none of the others want anyone else to have answers.