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Old 03-29-2023, 12:07 PM   #21
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
I don't have the book (yet), but that sounds like you're basically Afflicting the target with Vulnerability x2 toward your sneak attack. Does the book include any Under the Hood information for the abilities in it? I'd be interested to see how you built that.
It has a statblock for it, yes.
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Old 03-30-2023, 01:30 AM   #22
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves

Only thing that I have a query on is lock picking - Work by Touch. This goes back to Basic, too. Lock picking is not a visual skill. You can't see inside the lock except in very rare cases and any lock picker does it all by touch (and maybe some sound). I was hoping this might have been addressed to remove the penalty for not being able to see/work by touch only. Actually being able to see into the lock should be a bonus above normal.

Loads of YouTube videos showing people picking locks, and they don't have to look at what they're doing.
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Old 03-30-2023, 01:38 AM   #23
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves

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Originally Posted by Farmer View Post
Only thing that I have a query on is lock picking - Work by Touch. This goes back to Basic, too. Lock picking is not a visual skill. You can't see inside the lock except in very rare cases and any lock picker does it all by touch (and maybe some sound). I was hoping this might have been addressed to remove the penalty for not being able to see/work by touch only. Actually being able to see into the lock should be a bonus above normal.

Loads of YouTube videos showing people picking locks, and they don't have to look at what they're doing.
As someone who holds a locksmith license in my state and has been picking locks since he was about 10 it's definitely somewhat visual - the picks lining up in the right way will tell you what you need to do next. You're not looking at the tumblers themselves, you're looking at the alignment of the pick. Those folks on YouTube definitely bought off the penalty to do it by feel alone. I personally would just redefine Lockpicking itself, but that's not something you can usually do in supplements - though in this one I probably could have gotten away with it and it *was* discussed it was just that other things were more important and had priority over it.
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Old 03-30-2023, 05:08 PM   #24
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves

This is my favorite DF release in quite some time. You really did a nice job! I particularly like the Mastermind and expanded uses of Intelligence Analysis and Tactics, and I have a player who will definitely feel drawn to the Spell Thief. The book addresses a lot of what made Thieves feel suboptimal to my thinking, and it comes at a great time in my own campaign, where a thieves’ guild is becoming more important as adversaries and maybe allies.
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Old 03-30-2023, 07:32 PM   #25
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves

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Originally Posted by Dammann View Post
This is my favorite DF release in quite some time. You really did a nice job! I particularly like the Mastermind and expanded uses of Intelligence Analysis and Tactics, and I have a player who will definitely feel drawn to the Spell Thief. The book addresses a lot of what made Thieves feel suboptimal to my thinking, and it comes at a great time in my own campaign, where a thieves’ guild is becoming more important as adversaries and maybe allies.
Well that makes me happy to read. :-)
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Old 04-04-2023, 09:17 AM   #26
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves

Very confused again, this time about the spell-thief ability Steal Spells (p.32).

It starts:
Steal Spells
Spend 2 FP and make a Quick Contest of Will with your subject...
Later:
If you’ve just seen someone cast a spell, you can target it!
Make a Per-2 roll and spend 2 FP to target that specific spell.
If you succeed, they can maintain and control their previously
cast spell, but cannot cast it again until your theft’s
duration ends.

Questions:
1) Does it cost 2 or 4 FP to steal a spell you see them cast?
2) Is there a quick contest to steal a spell you see cast?
(by the book it seems not.)
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Old 04-04-2023, 09:44 AM   #27
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
Very confused again, this time about the spell-thief ability Steal Spells (p.32).

It starts:
Steal Spells
Spend 2 FP and make a Quick Contest of Will with your subject...
Later:
If you’ve just seen someone cast a spell, you can target it!
Make a Per-2 roll and spend 2 FP to target that specific spell.
If you succeed, they can maintain and control their previously
cast spell, but cannot cast it again until your theft’s
duration ends.

Questions:
1) Does it cost 2 or 4 FP to steal a spell you see them cast?
2) Is there a quick contest to steal a spell you see cast?
(by the book it seems not.)
1) 2 FP.
2) Yes. You're just targeting something specific they are doing, it's otherwise a normal use of the ability.
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Old 04-05-2023, 04:18 AM   #28
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves

Okay, not my favorite Denizens book, that's still Barbarians, but it's going to be very useful... very, very, very useful. With this and my modified "Thieves" Templates*, should actually see Players wanting to play Thieves (and not just Scouts with Lockpicking and Traps).

It definitely gives plenty of tools GMs can use to 'fix' the Thief profession for their games if they've had issues like the rest of us.


* And new Template ideas... I like Brigand. Has a young "Conan the Thief" feel to me.
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Old 04-07-2023, 08:35 AM   #29
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves

A belated "congrats" to the author—and all involved—as this book finally steals its way into view.

Of all the ideas that went back and forth in playtesting, I look forward to seeing which ones made it into print, and in what form.

Speaking of which... Here's a question for someone (probably not the author):

I'm only going by the downloadable preview, so apologies if the full product differs, but: Aren't there some missing playtester names on the cover? I note one apparent omission (ahem)...

Not a big problem, but if there's one omission, there could be more. It's worth a double-check.
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Old 05-18-2023, 09:36 PM   #30
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves

I've been enjoying Thieves a lot, and I'm trying to do some munchkinizing. I have a few questions for the people with the answers.

Acrobatic Attacker on page 21 says "You must specialize by unarmed combat skill or by specific weapon type."

But then in the stat block it has this: "Acrobatic Strikes! [5]. Acrobatic Strikes! is “wildcard perk” that costs 5 (instead of 1) to allow it to work with all applicable skills – in this case, all attacks."

So it seems like something wasn't edited out? If not, what does the Wildcard Perk apply to?

Heroic Thrower on page 22 says "If you throw using two hands, all attacks start at a basic -2, but the above penalty accrues separately for each hand; e.g., three attacks with one hand at -8, two with the other at -5. One attack with each hand is at -2 instead of -3. Again, these attacks can target different opponents."

Is that ... right? Heroic Thrower essentially lets you add Rapid Strikes to a Dual-Weapon Attack ... all at half price? And basically halved again since they're applied separately for each hand? Just asking for clarification!

Heroic Thrower also says "You can use maneuvers or combat options that are normally limited to melee weapon attacks, if they make sense. For example, you could use Feint or Deceptive Attack with thrown weaponry to 'fake out' a target."

So does that mean you could apply Hidden Draw on page 26 with Throwing Art when you use Fast-Draw (Knife)? Could you do that with every Fast-Draw in a Multiple Fast-Draw situation?

And it also says "If you have the relevant Fast-Draw skill at 16+, you don’t have to roll at all!" So if my Fast-Draw (Knife) skill is over 16, does that mean I can draw as many knives as I want?! or should that say "if your effective skill is at 16+ ..."?

Finally, the perk Better Part of Valor on page 19 says "With a Move and Attack maneuver, you can move directly backward ..." and "With an All-Out Attack, you can move ...."

Does this mean you have to make either a Move and Attack or an All-Out Attack to use this perk? Can you use it with a regular Attack? Was this an omission?

Last edited by JulianLW; 05-18-2023 at 09:43 PM.
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