Unknowingly Possessed?

Coinage · 10-03-2021, 01:25 PM

Hello, I have a quick question.

My goal is to create a character that is possessed by some evil demon of Mundanity. Basically, the demon has the 3rd-level Mundanity (IOU, p. 19). The demon goes out to destroy anything that it sees as a threat, which is basically anything supernatural, paranormal, or extraordinary. It effect is sort of like a living shadow of black tendrils that grab a super-powered person, turning them basically into a mundane person.

However, the possessed person does not know that he/she is possessed. The possessed just think that he's dealing with a bunch of crazy people who have deluded themselves into thinking they have superpowers. Only some sort of Divine or Cosmic power, or Exorcism or rituals back by Divine or Cosmic Powers, can overcome the possession.

Maybe I could treat the unwitting host not as being possessed, but rather as a kind of Anchor (Monster Hunters 3, p. 4)

Obviously, this would be for an NPC, maybe for a final boss of a session.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

Ulzgoroth · 10-03-2021, 03:46 PM

You're right that this is clearly not Possession in the GURPS Advantage sense, since the demon isn't in control of the body at all.

I think a real question here is what you're trying to 'create'. So long as the character in question is unaware, it's hard to say that the attached demon constitutes an Advantage...or a Disadvantage either.

If the person and the demon are NPCs, you don't really need to worry about trying to attribute points to this at all. If the person is a PC? I'd strongly advise avoiding that entirely. The entire point of the build is that it creates massive problems for others while the PC is blithely unaware and cannot be made to understand what is happening. That's a textbook deliberate game disruptor there...

Agemegos · 10-03-2021, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

So long as the character in question is unaware, it's hard to say that the attached demon constitutes an Advantage...or a Disadvantage either.

It's like an uncontrollable affliction of some sort. Combined with a delusion.

Quote:

If the person and the demon are NPCs, you don't really need to worry about trying to attribute points to this at all.

And as for mechanics such as range, saving throws, recovery times and methods, those ought to be adapted to the concept of the power rather than being calculated from existing game thingies.

Coinage · 10-03-2021, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

You're right that this is clearly not Possession in the GURPS Advantage sense, since the demon isn't in control of the body at all.

I think a real question here is what you're trying to 'create'. So long as the character in question is unaware, it's hard to say that the attached demon constitutes an Advantage...or a Disadvantage either.

If the person and the demon are NPCs, you don't really need to worry about trying to attribute points to this at all. If the person is a PC? I'd strongly advise avoiding that entirely. The entire point of the build is that it creates massive problems for others while the PC is blithely unaware and cannot be made to understand what is happening. That's a textbook deliberate game disruptor there...

Agreed, I should have made that clear. It would be reserved for NPCs, possibly as a final boss for a session.

Plane · 10-04-2021, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

You're right that this is clearly not Possession in the GURPS Advantage sense, since the demon isn't in control of the body at all.

Not in the Basic Set sense at least. The use of Possession in GURPS Fantasy for the Wendigo seems to imply that it's possible to retain possession but temporarily relinquish mental control. F52 "If this attempt succeeds, the wendigo then attempts to condition the victim to kill" talks about how Mind Control is used AFTER possession (F53 "Only victims of possession")

This also seems to be the approach taken by Timothy Ponce in pyramid 3/83's possessions under control (p27 "At your option, you may choose to allow your host to act unpenalized without losing accrued MCP.")

Coinage · 10-04-2021, 05:41 PM

Perhaps one approach would be to have the demon have Possession (B75) with a Link (B106) with some sort of Affliction, Disadvantage (B35-36): Delusion "victim believes that there is no possession, nothing extraordinary, and that they are still in control" (B130).

Another possibility would be to change the Affliction to Mundane Background (B144), or even Banal from Pyramid #3-97 p. 19.

How does that sound?

Plane · 10-04-2021, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coinage

Perhaps one approach would be to have the demon have Possession (B75) with a Link (B106) with some sort of Affliction, Disadvantage (B35-36): Delusion "victim believes that there is no possession, nothing extraordinary, and that they are still in control" (B130).

Another possibility would be to change the Affliction to Mundane Background (B144), or even Banal from Pyramid #3-97 p. 19.

How does that sound?

The way it normally works at max effect is you have blank spots where you don't remember what happened while possessed (B75 "completely suppressed .. no memory")

I'm not even sure if Fantasy-Wendigo possession even seems to do that. The whole point of Possession seems to be "some ability I use where success allows me to use Mind Control on it" which in turn is just "get them to eat human flesh so I can activate my Unkillable 3 reincarnation".

If the Wendigo did have the traditional capacity that possession gives (complete control over body) then it's unclear why they bother with mind control and not just force the new body to kill/cannicalize.

What I figure is "new host kills another human and eats his flesh" means that it has to be the host's mind choosing to do this, and not the mind of the possessing force. So you can steer that mind w/ Mind Control but not just knock it unconscious and do the eating yourself.

Closest I can think of is the Mind Swap enhancement for Possession, but that's not generally compatible with Spiritual since there's no other body for that victim to control since your spirit form gets carted around in the new body.

Coinage · 10-05-2021, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plane

The way it normally works at max effect is you have blank spots where you don't remember what happened while possessed (B75 "completely suppressed .. no memory")

I'm not even sure if Fantasy-Wendigo possession even seems to do that. The whole point of Possession seems to be "some ability I use where success allows me to use Mind Control on it" which in turn is just "get them to eat human flesh so I can activate my Unkillable 3 reincarnation".

If the Wendigo did have the traditional capacity that possession gives (complete control over body) then it's unclear why they bother with mind control and not just force the new body to kill/cannicalize.

What I figure is "new host kills another human and eats his flesh" means that it has to be the host's mind choosing to do this, and not the mind of the possessing force. So you can steer that mind w/ Mind Control but not just knock it unconscious and do the eating yourself.

Closest I can think of is the Mind Swap enhancement for Possession, but that's not generally compatible with Spiritual since there's no other body for that victim to control since your spirit form gets carted around in the new body.

However, I am not creating a Wendigo. I think that my idea would be better represented as some sort of traditional demon, or Manifestation from Voodoo Wars.

Anaraxes · 10-05-2021, 11:27 AM

1) Neutralize Linked to Delusion (Superpowers don't exist). Straightforward implementation of the effects in the OP. Neutralize adds the improvement that the targets powers really no longer operate. It's not just a mental block, so not so easy as tricking them into using their powers anyway. (You know some players will try it if it's a mental-only effect, as with Delusion alone. And you know that might sometimes be fun to have happen. Which leads to...)

2) Along with the Delusion, Afflict Unconscious Only to all the target's superpowers. Bends the rules a bit, since it's Afflicting a naked modifier and not an actual advantage. (I'd probably just build it as a pool of points worth of superpowers that the creature can affect, and pay for it as if it were an Advantage of 20% of that pool, to match the cost of Unconscious Only). The GM can decide that the power really does activate if the situation calls for it.

3) You might build it as an Affliction of Amnesia (total) - but just don't really cause forgetting of everything, but only the supernatural/superpowered stuff. Probably still want the Delusion if you want to ensure an active disbelief in superpowers, as opposed to simply not remembering that you have any, or that you have any reason to believe in them.

Pursuivant · 10-05-2021, 06:21 PM

It's a bit of a stretch, but generic ability to neutralize any type of supernatural trait could be treated as some form of Modular Ability or "Morph" restricted to just negating other peoples' powers via Affliction, Neutralize, Psi Static, etc.

Throw in the Area Effect/Aura, Cosmic, and Reduced Time modifiers to make it even more all-encompassing.

The black tendrils effect could count as a -5% Nuisance Effect if it's blatantly obvious (e.g., interferes with Stealth) or a +0% "Signature" to powers if it's not so obvious.

Another possibility is to treat the demon as a Patron which appears All the Time with the Highly Accessible & Special Abilities enhancements & the Secret limitation. This is particularly appropriate if the demon can leave the character and function on its own.

A third option would be to build the demon as the primary character and model its host as a Puppet or Unwilling Ally.

10-03-2021, 01:25 PM	#1
Coinage Join Date: Jan 2018	Unknowingly Possessed? Hello, I have a quick question. My goal is to create a character that is possessed by some evil demon of Mundanity. Basically, the demon has the 3rd-level Mundanity (*IOU, p. 19). The demon goes out to destroy anything that it sees as a threat, which is basically anything supernatural, paranormal, or extraordinary. It effect is sort of like a living shadow of black tendrils that grab a super-powered person, turning them basically into a mundane person. However, the possessed person does not know that he/she is possessed. The possessed just think that he's dealing with a bunch of crazy people who have deluded themselves into thinking they have superpowers. Only some sort of Divine or Cosmic power, or Exorcism or rituals back by Divine or Cosmic Powers, can overcome the possession. Maybe I could treat the unwitting host not as being possessed, but rather as a kind of Anchor (Monster Hunters 3, p. 4) Obviously, this would be for an NPC, maybe for a final boss of a session. Any suggestions? Thanks. Last edited by Coinage; 10-03-2021 at 07:30 PM.*

10-03-2021, 03:46 PM	#2
Ulzgoroth Join Date: Jul 2008	Re: Unknowingly Possessed? You're right that this is clearly not Possession in the GURPS Advantage sense, since the demon isn't in control of the body at all. I think a real question here is what you're trying to 'create'. So long as the character in question is unaware, it's hard to say that the attached demon constitutes an Advantage...or a Disadvantage either. If the person and the demon are NPCs, you don't really need to worry about trying to attribute points to this at all. If the person is a PC? I'd strongly advise avoiding that entirely. The entire point of the build is that it creates massive problems for others while the PC is blithely unaware and cannot be made to understand what is happening. That's a textbook deliberate game disruptor there... __________________ I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.

10-04-2021, 05:41 PM	#6
Coinage Join Date: Jan 2018	Re: Unknowingly Possessed? Perhaps one approach would be to have the demon have Possession (B75) with a Link (B106) with some sort of Affliction, Disadvantage (B35-36): Delusion "victim believes that there is no possession, nothing extraordinary, and that they are still in control" (B130). Another possibility would be to change the Affliction to Mundane Background (B144), or even Banal from Pyramid #3-97 p. 19. How does that sound? Last edited by Coinage; 10-04-2021 at 05:48 PM.

10-05-2021, 11:27 AM	#9
Anaraxes Join Date: Sep 2007	Re: Unknowingly Possessed? 1) Neutralize Linked to Delusion (Superpowers don't exist). Straightforward implementation of the effects in the OP. Neutralize adds the improvement that the targets powers really no longer operate. It's not just a mental block, so not so easy as tricking them into using their powers anyway. (You know some players will try it if it's a mental-only effect, as with Delusion alone. And you know that might sometimes be fun to have happen. Which leads to...) 2) Along with the Delusion, Afflict Unconscious Only to all the target's superpowers. Bends the rules a bit, since it's Afflicting a naked modifier and not an actual advantage. (I'd probably just build it as a pool of points worth of superpowers that the creature can affect, and pay for it as if it were an Advantage of 20% of that pool, to match the cost of Unconscious Only). The GM can decide that the power really does activate if the situation calls for it. 3) You might build it as an Affliction of Amnesia (total) - but just don't really cause forgetting of everything, but only the supernatural/superpowered stuff. Probably still want the Delusion if you want to ensure an active disbelief in superpowers, as opposed to simply not remembering that you have any, or that you have any reason to believe in them.

10-05-2021, 06:21 PM	#10
Pursuivant Join Date: Apr 2005	Re: Unknowingly Possessed? It's a bit of a stretch, but generic ability to neutralize any type of supernatural trait could be treated as some form of Modular Ability or "Morph" restricted to just negating other peoples' powers via Affliction, Neutralize, Psi Static, etc. Throw in the Area Effect/Aura, Cosmic, and Reduced Time modifiers to make it even more all-encompassing. The black tendrils effect could count as a -5% Nuisance Effect if it's blatantly obvious (e.g., interferes with Stealth) or a +0% "Signature" to powers if it's not so obvious. Another possibility is to treat the demon as a Patron which appears All the Time with the Highly Accessible & Special Abilities enhancements & the Secret limitation. This is particularly appropriate if the demon can leave the character and function on its own. A third option would be to build the demon as the primary character and model its host as a Puppet or Unwilling Ally.