Space 4e System Generation

[dataweaver]

It makes sense. To determine whether environmental factors such as albedo or the greenhouse effect has cooled the world or warmed it, compare the blackbody temperature to the climate: if the climate is warmer than blackbody, then the environmental factors have warmed the world; if it is lower, then they have cooled it. Since dividing the climate by a greenhouse-dominated blackbody correction factor results in a blackbody temperature cooler than the climate, that means that the greenhouse effect has warmed the world.

Cooler blackbody temperatures equate to more distance from the sun; so what this calculation really means is that the planet has the listed climate, despite being too far from the sun to manage it without the greenhouse effect.

Personally, I postpone everything involving the blackbody temperature until Step 21 (Placing a Pre-Designed World; determine the Blackbody Correction, and divide the climate by it to get the temperature to use when placing the orbit) or Step 28 (determine the Blackbody Correction and multiply by the blackbody temperature by it to get the world's climate) - both of which are in the Advanced Worldbuilding chapter. You simply don't need the blackbody temperature for Basic Worldbuilding. Had I been in the playtest, I would have recommended moving the blackbody calculations into Step 28, and having Step 21 include a forward reference to them.

[Flyndaran]

But I start with the blackbody number, then try to find the actual surface temperature, or correction, as it says. This makes all greenhouse planets cooler.

Ohhhhh, waitaminute. I thought that the correction number was how to adjust the blackbody temperature arrived at based on AU distance. Otherwise am I just to guess at real surface temperatures?

Or should I continue to multiply by the correction since I started from the opposite end as expected?

[dataweaver]

The correction factor is the ratio between the blackbody temperature and the climate. In Step 5, you start with the climate (that's what page 83 is all about), and you derive the blackbody temperature from it (page 84). In Step 28, you start with the blackbody temperature and derive the climate from it.

This is why I would have moved the concept of blackbody from Basic Worldbuilding's Step 5 to Advanced Worldbuilding's Step 28; you never use it in Basic Worldbuilding for anything. It only gets used in Advanced Worldbuilding.

[Wicked Lurker]

I am being deliberately provocative now but:

I was playing with the thought of buying GURPS Space, but somehow I could not find a good reason how I would utilize a System Generation Mechanic.
In most of the games I play the star system is flavor for the story.. some sugartoppings if you will. Nobody I ever played with (and there were a bunch of physicists among them) ever complained about things like: this system could never have a brown dwarf.. or .. the gravity of this planet has to be different etc. Not to even begin speaking about preparation time for something like this which is basically a background element (somewhat similar to the argument brought why spaceships are not in that book).

How do you utilize this in a game context? Isn't it somewhat like worrying: What kind of grass grows in the Orcish Swamps of my fantasy world?

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

The correction factor is the ratio between the blackbody temperature and the climate. In Step 5, you start with the climate (that's what page 83 is all about), and you derive the blackbody temperature from it (page 84). In Step 28, you start with the blackbody temperature and derive the climate from it.

This is why I would have moved the concept of blackbody from Basic Worldbuilding's Step 5 to Advanced Worldbuilding's Step 28; you never use it in Basic Worldbuilding for anything. It only gets used in Advanced Worldbuilding.

Oh fer cripes sake. Now that you point it out, it's obvious. I don't know how I overlooked that.
I certainly agree that its placement makes it far to easy to missinterpret and screw up.

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by Wicked Lurker

How do you utilize this in a game context? Isn't it somewhat like worrying: What kind of grass grows in the Orcish Swamps of my fantasy world?

It can be, depending on whether or not you use it excessively. (What "excessive" means is an open question.)

However: even if you don't use the particular mechanics of the design sequence, it pays to at least look over the steps when envisioning a world. In particular, the Basic Worldbuilding chapter focuses on the environment that the PCs will find themselves in: atmosphere, climate, and surface gravity play the most prominent roles, with "wet" vs. "dry" playing an important backup role; and unless your group has no problem with the Firefly effect (where every world bears a suspicious resemblance to every other world), keeping these factors in mind can be a big help.

Another major use is the classification scheme given: the breakdown of worlds into Garden, Barren, and Hostile is itself a useful pidgeonholing of concepts, as is Tiny/Small/Medium/Large; and the full set of World Types can provide a basis for an in-setting classification scheme (such as Star Trek's famous "Class M world" ("Standard (Garden)" World Type).

In terms of the Social Parameters, I'll admit that population itself tends to be about as meaningless as a concept can be when it comes to roleplaying; population pressure, OTOH... And the other social parameters can be quite useful.

Besides: consider the hue and cry that arose when it was announced that GURPS Space wasn't going to have a starship design system. Can you imagine how much worse it would have been if they had left out worldbuilding as well? :)

[vesper]

Originally Posted by Wicked Lurker

I am being deliberately provocative now but:


How do you utilize this in a game context? Isn't it somewhat like worrying: What kind of grass grows in the Orcish Swamps of my fantasy world?

Actually it depends on the type of GM you are. I am the type who will use this. I was thinking of running a space exploration game, which this sort of detail is important. I think the fact so many people are interested in it kind of shows there are quite a few people interested.

As far as the time it takes, you see people are already looking at creating spreadsheets and I was thinking what a nice little C# program this would be. You have to understand there are a lot of gearheads and some non gearheads that might use it. I have files and files of stuff I reuse so it is never really used once and thrown away. For example I have probably 120 spacecraft I have created for Gurps Traveller, my players know them well enough they can probably name 40 of them off the top of their head.

Basically what I am saying it depends on the type of GM you are. Like the difference between prepers and wingers.

Vesper

[Pomphis]

I also use it outside of games. That´s why I made excerpts of the relevant tables. That way I can design systems during otherwise boring meetings without raised eyebrows. If somebody has some papers, and sometimes writes something down, nobody is bothered. Much more discreet than reading a newspaper for example.

[vesper]

Originally Posted by Pomphis

I also use it outside of games. That´s why I made excerpts of the relevant tables. That way I can design systems during otherwise boring meetings without raised eyebrows. If somebody has some papers, and sometimes writes something down, nobody is bothered. Much more discreet than reading a newspaper for example.

I will have to remember that for my next meeting. I had a guy who use to work with me that use to create his own generators for his games. He said well management looks and sees visual studio open and assumes he is hard at work. The funny part is he still use to get as much real work done as two other developers

Vesper

[Mgellis]

I noticed that, too. I checked some sources and they all seem to agree that a brown dwarf should mass about 10 to 80 Jupiter masses (i.e., about .01 to .08 solar masses). I'm going to treat it as a typo (i.e., treat the range in the book as .0015 to .07 solar masses, not .15 to .7 solar masses). Hopefully, there will be an official errata notice eventually.

Mark

Originally Posted by Pomphis

I believe the Brown Dwarfs have a mass that is too large by a factor of 10, the given values would put them in the same range as K- and M-stars.