[DF] Extra Effort in Combat - Page 3

Maz · 09-23-2010, 08:21 AM

I find EE exceptionally fitting for DF games. And I as a GM really use it. I even built up an entire "Random encounter" system that more or less assume people spend FP.

In my games when the players head into a dungeon, its a living place. monsters walk around and may run into the players, especially if they make noise or stay in one place for a long time.

When in an Active Dungeon, If the players decide to take a rest after a fight, I ask them how long the want to rest (in 5 mins increments) , then I roll a Random Encounter roll. The longer time they rest the more likely there is a random encounter.

For instance resting for 20 mins would mean an encounter on 7 or less.

The result is that whenever a player use a FP in combat, they know they either won't have that in the next fight, or they have to take a rest (of a minimum of 5 mins, with Very Fit)... which might result in a Random encounter... that might cost HP and even more FP.

I also always require FP cost after a combat. If a combat feels short (no matter the number of turns), I might require less FP.

The results are several but mainly that FP is the combat resource. If the players are cool enough and don't think they need FP then they might get a tougher fight but don't have to rest and can move straight on.
It also means that light fighters can allow themselves to spend more more EE in combat than heavy fighters... and they usually need it as well.

blacksmith · 09-23-2010, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno

Your characters always have time to search the bodies immediately after killing them?

And never go into a fight tired after climbing hiking swimming etc?

Or hungry?

Huh.

And they also get plenty of sleep at night, it is the nice relaxed pace that a dungeon crawl is all about.

blacksmith · 09-23-2010, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taliesin

The minimum FP I have seen for a DF character is 12 FP. The average battle takes around eight seconds but they only need extra fatigue during 3-4 of those seconds. So the ones that need to recover rest while the others are searching the bodies, looking for secret doors etc. I've been playing GURPS for a long, long time and I've never seen fatigue become an issue except for mages. In the case of mages I've seen some that were always afraid to cast any spell because they "might need the manna more later".

So they spend what 5 fatigue per fight? That is over an hour of resting to recuperate. And mages really never need to worry about blowing through their energy because they will always have time after the fight to recover it?

Bruno · 09-23-2010, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacksmith

And they also get plenty of sleep at night, it is the nice relaxed pace that a dungeon crawl is all about.

Ah, yes. They never get woken up in the middle of the night by a murderous group of bizarre composite-animal monsters either.

(I swear, every GM I know likes to wake PCs up at about 2 AM with the stabbings)

Crakkerjakk · 09-23-2010, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno

Ah, yes. They never get woken up in the middle of the night by a murderous group of bizarre composite-animal monsters either.

(I swear, every GM I know likes to wake PCs up at about 2 AM with the stabbings)

And the mohoigen! It's a hallowed DF tradition.

~~Taliesin~~ · 09-24-2010, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno

Your characters always have time to search the bodies immediately after killing them?

And never go into a fight tired after climbing hiking swimming etc?

Or hungry?

Huh.

These situations are the exception rather that the rule for me are you suggesting that you pull those thing on your players every session and attack them every time they try to sleep?

Huh.

Guess bdog is not the exception he's the rule.

Yes, there are other ways to handle it. One way since it's clearly listed as an optional rule is to not allow it. I'm choosing to allow it but in a way that makes it an exception use for exceptional situations rather than an every turn every combat thing.

Crakkerjakk · 09-24-2010, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taliesin

Yes, there are other ways to handle it. One way since it's clearly listed as an optional rule is to not allow it. I'm choosing to allow

Yes, but you're doing so for reasons and in a manner that seem counter-intuitive to our experiences. If someone told you that they always use bleeding rules in cinematic games because it makes their games feel more like an action movie, wouldn't you question the train of logic that led them to that conclusion?

blacksmith · 09-27-2010, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taliesin

These situations are the exception rather that the rule for me are you suggesting that you pull those thing on your players every session and attack them every time they try to sleep?

I most dungeons I would expect the party to be attacked if they waited an hour to rest up after every fight. Unless you foes never communicate or move around or can hear fighting in the next room and maybe do something about it it just makes sense.

And if you do not spend an hour clearing each room you will be less likely to need to sleep in the dungeon. But sleeping in a dungeon should get them attacked.

If they stay active and moving they will not get this, but waiting around to rest so much seems like a bad idea in a dungeon.

Now if it is wilderness gaming that is different, but in any thing that you could class as a dungeon it is easy to keep the pressure on so that they are not getting their fatigue back. And in wilderness gaming you should start most fights with a bit of fatigue from the march.

weby · 09-27-2010, 05:41 AM

Well, we have used/use the extra effort rules in every Gurps campaign I have played in or GMed. (with bit different options).

FP tends to be the first resource that is depleted in fights, before major damage in most cases as for most characters the +2 to defences helps a lot.

Examples: In the current fantasy campaign at slightly lower point totals than DF, but with a fairly DF "feel", the utility caster tends to blow off a lot of FP on buffing and be low from begining of major encounters. The priest buffs a bit but mostly save for healing(himself mostly...) so starts at medium FP. The tank type fighter tends to use a lot of extra effort on defences in order to not go berserk and thus have a constant and fairly fast FP drain. Only my light fighter with really high dodge seems to have extra FP to spend on adding combat effectiveness(Used mostly to lower cost of extra strikes).

In the Gurps Starwars campaign that I GM, extra effort for increased defences is a must due to the lethality of failed rolls in lightsaber combat and the potentially high number of attacks that the 500+ point combatants can throw out in a second..

09-23-2010, 08:21 AM	#21
Maz Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Denmark	Re: [DF] Extra Effort in Combat I find EE exceptionally fitting for DF games. And I as a GM really use it. I even built up an entire "Random encounter" system that more or less assume people spend FP. In my games when the players head into a dungeon, its a living place. monsters walk around and may run into the players, especially if they make noise or stay in one place for a long time. When in an Active Dungeon, If the players decide to take a rest after a fight, I ask them how long the want to rest (in 5 mins increments) , then I roll a Random Encounter roll. The longer time they rest the more likely there is a random encounter. For instance resting for 20 mins would mean an encounter on 7 or less. The result is that whenever a player use a FP in combat, they know they either won't have that in the next fight, or they have to take a rest (of a minimum of 5 mins, with Very Fit)... which might result in a Random encounter... that might cost HP and even more FP. I also always require FP cost after a combat. If a combat feels short (no matter the number of turns), I might require less FP. The results are several but mainly that FP is the combat resource. If the players are cool enough and don't think they need FP then they might get a tougher fight but don't have to rest and can move straight on. It also means that light fighters can allow themselves to spend more more EE in combat than heavy fighters... and they usually need it as well.

09-27-2010, 05:41 AM	#29
weby Join Date: Oct 2008	Re: [DF] Extra Effort in Combat Well, we have used/use the extra effort rules in every Gurps campaign I have played in or GMed. (with bit different options). FP tends to be the first resource that is depleted in fights, before major damage in most cases as for most characters the +2 to defences helps a lot. Examples: In the current fantasy campaign at slightly lower point totals than DF, but with a fairly DF "feel", the utility caster tends to blow off a lot of FP on buffing and be low from begining of major encounters. The priest buffs a bit but mostly save for healing(himself mostly...) so starts at medium FP. The tank type fighter tends to use a lot of extra effort on defences in order to not go berserk and thus have a constant and fairly fast FP drain. Only my light fighter with really high dodge seems to have extra FP to spend on adding combat effectiveness(Used mostly to lower cost of extra strikes). In the Gurps Starwars campaign that I GM, extra effort for increased defences is a must due to the lethality of failed rolls in lightsaber combat and the potentially high number of attacks that the 500+ point combatants can throw out in a second..