Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-27-2021, 03:50 PM   #1
Tymathee
 
Tymathee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: I'd rather be alone than be with people who make me feel alone.
Default [DF] Lich PCs in DF - Oswald the Violet

Part 1

Just to take a break from working on the details of my non-DF campaign, here's some more DF content!

A cool idea that's been explored before is the Evil PCs campaign, where you play the opposite of heroics and do all the fun naughty stuff. Alternatively, a Suicide Squad-esque DF campaign would be fun too. Stranger still, a party of PCs all with varying tastes in morals would be quite intriguing... a "Avengers assemble!" scale of impending doom where the heroes of Good and the villains of Evil must band together to even stand a chance against the threat of The Unthinkable Eldritch Horrors.

The iconic Evil Wizard is the Lich. What I've got here is a worked example of what a Lich PC (or NPC too, he'd make a very fun villain) might look like for a DF game. I've included some really cool Evil Wizard stuff too; unlike the Evil Cleric and Unholy Warrior whose powers are granted by the Bad God, the Evil Wizards abilities are fueled by pure Evil, assumed to be a tangible force of nature itself which I think is appropriate to the genre.

Oswald the Violet
250 Points

Primary Attributes: ST 10 [0]; DX 12 [40]; IQ 16 [120]; HT 11 [10].

Secondary Characteristics:
Damage 1d-2/1d
BL 20 lbs.
HP 10 [0]
Will 16 [0]
Per 15 [-5]
FP N/A [0]
Basic Speed 6.00 [5]
Basic Move 7 [5]

Advantages:
Doesn’t Breathe [20]
Doesn’t Eat or Drink [10]
Doesn’t Sleep [20]
Immunity to Metabolic Hazards [30]
Injury Tolerance (No Blood; No Brain; No Eyes; No Vitals; Unliving) [40]
Intuitive Cantrip (Aid) [1]
Limited Energy Reserve (Black Magic) 24 [24]
Magery 6 (Limited Energy Reserve (Black Magic) Only, -80%) [17]
Protected Power (Magic) [5]
Psychic Guidance (Lightning) [1]
Signature Gear (Crystal Ball, 2”) [1]

Disadvantages:
Appearance (Monstrous; Universal, +25%) [-25]
Fragile (Brittle) [-15]
No Sense of Smell/Taste [-5]
Sense of Duty (Adventuring companions) [-5]
Skinny [-5]
Social Stigma (Dead) [-20]
Unhealing (Partial; Magical healing only) [-20]
Vulnerability (Crushing x2) [-30]
Wealth (Dead Broke) [-25]
Weirdness Magnet [-15]

Quirks:
Attentive [-1]
Broad-Minded [-1]
Cannot float [-1]
Eccentric [-1]
Insensitive [-1]
Proud [-1]

Features: Affected by Pentagram and True Faith. Detects as Evil. May heal via spells or by being drenched in healing potion. Unaging.

Languages:
Common (Native) [0]
Elvish: Spoken (None)/Written (Native) [3]
Dwarvish: Spoken (None)/Written (Native) [3]
Goblinish: Spoken (Native)/Written (None) [3]

Skills:
Alchemy-15 [4]
Architecture-15 [1]
Cartography-15 [1]
Diplomacy-15 [2]
First Aid-16 [1]
Hazardous Materials (Magical)-15 [1]
Hidden Lore (Magical Writings)-15 [1]
Leadership-15 [1]
Occultism-15 [1]
Research-15 [1]
Savior-Faire (High Society)-16 [1]
Scrounging-15 [1]
Speed-Reading-15 [1]
Stealth-12 [2]
Strategy-15 [2]
Tactics-15 [2]
Teaching-15 [1]
Thaumatology-19 [1]
Writing-15 [1]

Spells:
Air Vision-20 [1]
Analyze Magic-20 [1]
Apportation-20 [1]
Aura-20 [1]
Continual Light-20 [1]
Counterspell-20 [1]
Create Air-20 [1]
Deflect Missile-20 [1]
Detect Magic-20 [1]
Dispel Magic-20 [1]
Divination (Crystal-Gazing)-20 [1]
Earth Vision-20 [1]
History-20 [1]
Identify Spell-20 [1]
Iron Arm-20 [1]
Itch-20 [1]
Lend Energy-20 [1]
Light-20 [1]
Lightning-20 [1]
Lockmaster-20 [1]
Mage Sight-20 [1]
Missile Shield-20 [1]
Mystic Mist-20 [1]
Pain-20 [1]
Purify Air-20 [1]
Recover Energy-20 [1]
Resist Pain-20 [1]
See Secrets-20 [1]
Seeker-20 [1]
Seek Earth-20 [1]
Seek Magic-20 [1]
Shape Air-20 [1]
Shape Earth-20 [1]
Share Energy-20 [1]
Shield-20 [1]
Spasm-20 [1]
Steal Energy-20 [1]
Steal Vitality-20 [1]
Stench-20 [1]
Trace-20 [1]
Umbrella-20 [1]
Walk on Air-20 [1]

Equipment:
• Crystal Ball, 2” [Robe] $20, 0.3 lb.
• Worn Short Boots [Feet] DR 1*. $0, 3 lbs.
• Tattered Violet Robe [Torso, Arms, Legs] $0, 1.2 lbs.

Last edited by Tymathee; 06-27-2021 at 04:02 PM.
Tymathee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2021, 03:58 PM   #2
Tymathee
 
Tymathee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: I'd rather be alone than be with people who make me feel alone.
Default Re: [DF] Lich PCs in DF - Oswald the Violet

Part 2

Designer’s Notes

Oswald totally wanders off-template, but that is okay, as I deemed it necessary to build to concept. He is based off the Wizard template with a modified Lich racial template applied. The original Lich template can be found in issue 3/72 of Pyramid, from the article From the Bottom Up. Any conflicts with campaign details (language names, item availability and pricing, etc.) can be altered, as necessary.

The most interesting bit here is what I call Limited Energy Reserve (Black Magic). It has all the usual limitations built into the perk, but it is not limited to being used with a single magical style. As a Limitation “One Style Only” is likely roughly equivalent to “One College Only”, a -40% Limitation. With that in mind it is simple enough to simply swap that out for any combination of Limitations that add up to -40%. I have opted for:

- Nuisance Effect, -5%: When the user draws upon the reserve to cast spells, they emit an eerie light from their body. The glowing lasts for the duration of the casting time of the spell. Others will get +5 to rolls made to notice you in the dark!
- Nuisance Effect, -20%: -3 to reactions. The eerie light is readily identifiable by anyone as capital E Evil, regardless of whether they have a ability or spell to detect Evil.
- Required Disadvantage, -15%: Weirdness Magnet. Ominous omens (e.g. murders of crows often flying overhead) and shady entities (e.g. hags wanting you to stop and chat to swap alchemical recipes) are drawn to your wickedness.

EDIT: I've since worked out that the "Cannot Share or Transfer Energy" inherent to Limited Energy Reserve is roughly equivalent to "Abilities Only" for -10%. We add up -40% (from above), -10%, and a -20% for Slow Recharge of 1 point/hour to get -70% total applied to a level of Energy Reserve, giving us that [1] per level.

Limited Energy Reserve (Black Magic) can be acquired at character creation with spent points, or during play by performing ritualistic acts of Evil conducted using ritual trappings with a total value of $500 or more (fancy candles, the best chalk, a virgin sacrifice… etc.). New trappings must be purchased for each ritual conducted. Upon conducting the ritual that character’s player may then spend a single Character Point to give that character an additional level of Limited Energy Reserve (Black Magic). Limited Energy Reserve (Black Magic) may be purchased ignoring the usual limit of 1 magical Perk per 20 points invested in spells. Characters with at least one level of this trait will be detectable as Evil by other characters with the means to do so.

Part of the reason why I wanted Limited Energy Reserve (Black Magic) was that I needed a cheap alternative to the more expensive regular Energy Reserve. Why I needed a cheaper alternative? Liches as a PC race as written have ordinary FP, meaning after any fatiguing activity the lich might need to stop and rest as if to catch his breath! I find this comical and maybe that was the author’s intent. I, however, do not envision liches like that. Tirelessness in my opinion is a feature of being undead, especially for skeletal undead (some vampires might be the exception). Undead without FP cannot cast spells unless they have an Energy Reserve… at 3 points per point of reserve though, it seemed prohibitively expensive for a wizard at char gen who starts with FP N/A. I liked Limited Energy Reserve but being limited to a single magical style was not cutting it. So, as made evident by the above, I went under the hood and made some arguably balanced changes to it. Since I cooked this up, I suppose I would have to persuade the GM to let me get away with this munchkinism. IMHO (although likely biased) this Perk seems balanced enough on paper. I would be inclined to even argue that even though this adds up to -40%, the Limitations are more detrimental than only being limited to using the reserve to only cast spells of a single magical style.

If Magery is to be acquired in play with this -80% Limitation, it should probably have some cost to acquire it beyond Character Points if it is improved during play. I think the model I have provided for LER (BM) is good, so the process for getting more levels of this kind of Magery will be the same as that except it will be $1000 or more of ritual trappings used per level of Magery the character wants. Also like LER (BM), as a feature of having at least Magery 1 with this Limitation the character will be detectable as Evil by those with the means to do so.

Please see this post for the under the hood details for why that -80% on Magery really is -80%.

Why the monetary cost for acquiring Magery (Limited Energy Reserve (Black Magic) Only) and LER (BM) in play? It is not required by RAW, but the third DF supplement, The Next Level, suggests that traits that can be acquired in play may having training expenses, with a list of suggested prices according to the type of point expenditure. Those numbers do not line up with 1 point = $500, but I used that conversion rate rather than what The Next Level suggests instead. The GM might be free to price it as they see fit for their own taste in game balance but this is just what I am suggesting might be balanced enough.

An ordinary, unenchanted crystal ball (2”) costs $1000 as written. In comparison a hand mirror costs only $15 in DF; for other kinds of divination, Ouija board costs just $40 (GURPS Horror, but the cost seems on par with other offerings), and a Tarot deck costs $50 (From the DF Treasure Tables supplement. I am assuming this overrides the GURPS Magic cost for the item at $1000). To me it seems as if the crystal ball is arbitrarily more expensive. A Google search shows me that a crystal ball of that size can be as cheap as $20. If other divination items cost so very cheap in DF, it is safe to assume that production of the items is on par with modern TLs (likely sold in bulk bargain bins at Ye Olde Magic Shoppe). Since there is already a precedent in DF to have divination items at low costs, I am going to say that it is only fair that crystal balls be cheap too. $15 for a hand mirror that doesn't need enchantment and lets you use Crystal-Gazing at no penalty(if you want more elaboration on this, see later posts on the matter) dictates that we ought to have a $20 2" crystal ball that requires no enchantment as well.

I think it might be useful to cover the notable exclusions from the skills for the Wizard template. Hidden Lore specialties seem like they would be either essential or quite niche-case in usefulness. Essential if the GM decides to inform the player in Session Zero that specialties would be relevant in the campaign. Otherwise, the character ought to default to using Magic Items/Magical Writings specialties for being the most generically useful. Of the two of those, I would prioritize Magical Writings. I cannot imagine a GM throwing a lot of “legendary” magical items at PCs, but reading ancient magical tomes seems like standard fare for Wizards. Its usefulness is still likely niche-case though and it probably is not worth investing more than a single point in.

I have left off any melee skills. Maybe that is foolish, or maybe it is a wiser investment to put those points into more spells? Fragile (Brittle) and Vulnerability (Crushing x2) makes melee combat more dangerous to risk getting into and incentivizes simply staying out of it. Wizards are not front-line fighters, and this only compounds the issue. Wizards in DF do not function as well as damage dealers as they perform as magical swiss army knives. A blocking spell for melee attacks, spells to protect against missile fire, and a ranged missile spell should hopefully suffice for combat. I specifically envision Oswald staying out of the heat of combat, utilizing his magic from the sidelines and barking out tactical advise using his suite of commandeering skills. Run like a chicken when the gobbos come chasing with their clubs.

Intuitive Cantrip (Aid) might seem against the spirit of DF for a Wizard to have. Technically it is a Perk with a “spell-like effect”, not a spell. It is, however, associated with the Healing college. The semantics could be argued but the effect of the Perk seems very inoffensive and roughly inline with what DF expects of Wizards in terms of healing.

As I have been writing my design notes, one important question has come up. If RAW DF Wizard PCs cannot learn enchantment spells (which includes the Lich spell), how does a Lich PC exist to begin with? From the Bottom Up neglects to mention anything regarding this as far as I know. Shouldn’t the Lich’s character sheet reflect point investments reflecting having what was needed to attain lichdom? Seems unfair to make the player spend points on their character that serve no purpose past character creation though. I would not even think an Unusual Background should be required. However, the absence of it on the sheet ought to be explained in the background of the character. I am in favor of saying Oswald had the recipe for the elixir of lichdom, the Lich spell, and its prerequisites wiped from his memory. Oswald would rather not face competition from new liches, and rather than leave the secrets vulnerable to being pried from his mind with magic or interrogation, he used a Scroll of Great Wish to erase them from his memory permanently.

The equipment loadout is practically non-existent, but the neat gimmicks of being undead largely renders a lot of it moot; no need for rations for food or camping gear to protect from the worst of the elements. *shrugs*

Last edited by Tymathee; 07-08-2021 at 10:57 PM. Reason: Changed link.
Tymathee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2021, 04:35 PM   #3
mr beer
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: [DF] Lich PCs in DF - Oswald the Violet

All Dungeon Fantasy archetypes have combat skills, including Wizards and Scholars - I think the lowest melee weapon skill for any Template is around 14? Obviously your PC, your choice but thematically any "official" DF Lich PC Template would have Staff or something similar.
mr beer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2021, 05:00 PM   #4
Tymathee
 
Tymathee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: I'd rather be alone than be with people who make me feel alone.
Default Re: [DF] Lich PCs in DF - Oswald the Violet

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr beer View Post
All Dungeon Fantasy archetypes have combat skills, including Wizards and Scholars - I think the lowest melee weapon skill for any Template is around 14? Obviously your PC, your choice but thematically any "official" DF Lich PC Template would have Staff or something similar.
Oh, I figured this would be the most offensive thing to those who'd prefer more optimized characters, hence the bit I wrote in my Designer's Notes. I'm less interested in min-maxing and more interested in creating specialized, colorful characters that create intriguing roleplaying opportunities.

He's loosely inspired by saturday morning cartoon villains that peer into a screen, reflecting pool, or crystal ball to gaze upon the heroes and cackle as they monologue the fiendish scheme of the week... and just as the heroes thwart his plans, he gives a quick shrill screaming speech about if only they hadn't meddled with his plans he would've gotten away with it this time. Then picks up the hems of his robes and makes his timely escape! Or something like that. Oswald would rather not get his hands dirty and have his companions (or perhaps minions) do all the backbreaking work.

Last edited by Tymathee; 06-27-2021 at 05:04 PM.
Tymathee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2021, 06:21 PM   #5
Prince Charon
 
Prince Charon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Re: [DF] Lich PCs in DF - Oswald the Violet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tymathee View Post
An ordinary, unenchanted crystal ball (2”) costs $1000 as written. In comparison a hand mirror costs only $15 in DF; for other kinds of divination, Ouija board costs just $40 (GURPS Horror, but the cost seems on par with other offerings), and a Tarot deck costs $50 (From the DF Treasure Tables supplement. I am assuming this overrides the GURPS Magic cost for the item at $1000). To me it seems as if the crystal ball is arbitrarily more expensive. A Google search shows me that a crystal ball of that size can be as cheap as $20.
The high cost of an unenchanted crystal ball in-setting might be due to the fact that glass was harder to make, and thus more expensive, in medieval Europe.
__________________
Warning, I have the Distractible and Imaginative quirks in real life.

"The more corrupt a government, the more it legislates."
-- Tacitus

Five Earths, All in a Row. Updated 12/17/2022: Apocrypha: Bridges out of Time, Part I has been posted.
Prince Charon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2021, 06:40 PM   #6
Tymathee
 
Tymathee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: I'd rather be alone than be with people who make me feel alone.
Default Re: [DF] Lich PCs in DF - Oswald the Violet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
The high cost of an unenchanted crystal ball in-setting might be due to the fact that glass was harder to make, and thus more expensive, in medieval Europe.
Well made crystal glass vials go for just a mere $5 according to the DF's Adventurers book. A quality glass bottle at that cheap of price seems to suggest that DF's "implied vaguely defined kitchen-sink fantasy setting" is capable of producing such glass items very, very cheaply. The aforementioned hand mirror seems absurdly cheap for a faux-medieval setting, and by RAW it allows Crystal-Gazing at no penalty to skill without need of enchantment. So I interpreted what appears to be in need of errata as an oversight of the authors. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Tymathee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2021, 10:22 PM   #7
Balor Patch
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Default Re: [DF] Lich PCs in DF - Oswald the Violet

If I was the GM I'd say "By the Realm of the Dead and all the Hells, no!"

That buying Energy Reserve needs to be justified in-game is not a limitation on the power at all, much less a -67% one. If the ritual is for recharge then I'd buy it.

The limitations on Magery are also suspect. 1) Splashy for 5% is OK. 2) Between Horrific and SS Dead hardly anyone will care that its magic is also obviously Evil. Besides, a reputation hit doesn't affect the use of the power and, rather than scale with it, should be a separate Unnatural Features disadvantage. 3) The character always has Weirdness Magnet so requiring it in no way limits the power. This just makes a [-15] disadvantage into a [-25] one without in any way changing the effects.
Balor Patch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2021, 11:02 PM   #8
Tymathee
 
Tymathee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: I'd rather be alone than be with people who make me feel alone.
Default Re: [DF] Lich PCs in DF - Oswald the Violet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balor Patch View Post
If I was the GM I'd say "By the Realm of the Dead and all the Hells, no!"

That buying Energy Reserve needs to be justified in-game is not a limitation on the power at all, much less a -67% one. If the ritual is for recharge then I'd buy it.

The limitations on Magery are also suspect. 1) Splashy for 5% is OK. 2) Between Horrific and SS Dead hardly anyone will care that its magic is also obviously Evil. Besides, a reputation hit doesn't affect the use of the power and, rather than scale with it, should be a separate Unnatural Features disadvantage. 3) The character always has Weirdness Magnet so requiring it in no way limits the power. This just makes a [-15] disadvantage into a [-25] one without in any way changing the effects.
You're not exactly just buying it. You pay for an amount of ritual trappings... then you must perform the ritualistic act of Evil. No skill roll required for the preparations, but it does need to be convincing enough to sway the forces of Evil to imbue you with its darkness. With the example items given, Oswald would need to organize a time and place in which he would be able to perform such a ritual. Draw magical circle with the expensive chalk, light the fancy candles, and make sure that virgin sacrifice isn't going anywhere. Maybe Oswald recites some convincingly Evil chanting, then drives a sharp object into the victim to kill them. The other characters more likely then not will also have to take the time to aid in this endeavor, unless Oswald pays hirelings to do his bidding. That's a lot of work.

Limited Energy Reserve, not my variant listed here, is from the Magical Styles book. I simply swapped the "One Style Only" part that's baked into the trait and swapped it with a equivalent amount of Limitations. That still leaves all the other limiting factors already baked into Limited Energy Reserve, so it's fine in that regard. If he somehow disguised himself (and perhaps also with something to hide his aura) so he could sneak into Town, he'd likely not want to risk exposing himself by publicly casting magic. Regular Wizards have the privilege of utilizing their magic in wholesome society as they please, but a Evil Wizard (lich or not) has to be secretive.

Weirdness Magnet is warranted because without it you invalidate the LER (BM). If you buy it off, or it is otherwise removed for in game reasons, you no longer get the privilege of using your edgy ER. Maybe Oswald pisses off the wrong deity and they (literally?) smack the magnetic-ness straight outta him, or mess with his inherent aura that causes the omens around him and shady people to now ignore him rather than be drawn to him.

The limitation on Magery is to limit its usage to only the LER (BM). So no spending any FP (not that that matters), no burning HP, no Power Item energy, no gifted energy, etc. He has to power his magic purely with evil energy.

Some of what you say either doesn't make sense or is difficult to parse, so I hope my responses are properly informed. I would've included these details in the Designer's Notes but they had to be cut because SJG forum's post size limit. I figured it was obvious stuff but apparently not.

Last edited by Tymathee; 06-27-2021 at 11:28 PM.
Tymathee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2021, 12:32 AM   #9
Tymathee
 
Tymathee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: I'd rather be alone than be with people who make me feel alone.
Default Re: [DF] Lich PCs in DF - Oswald the Violet

It might help if I lay things out in a simpler way besides fat blocks of wordy text.

Limited Energy Reserve (Black Magic) consists of the following:
  • The Limited Energy Reserve magic perk, from GURPS Thaumatology: Magical Styles, pg. 27
  • The inherent "One Style Only" aspect of the Perk was substituted by a combined amount of -40% in Limitations, as previously detailed in this thread
  • The remaining inherent limiting factors of the original Perk amount to: being unable to share or transfer this energy. Which makes it worthless for powering magical items, ceromonial magic, or otherwise gifting the energy

Hopefully this is more transparent and less opaque with the details. The trait was already inherently balanced in regards to point balance but I used my judgement to say that if you want to buy it in play, you need to cough up your time, money, and sacrifice your morals to get it. Still totally fine to buy it in char gen with just points. Same deal for the Magery.

I think I explained why the -80% on Magery makes sense pretty well already, but I'll restate it just in case. He literally can only use his LER (BM) to power his spells, nothing else. A regular Wizard has his FP to spend, HP to burn, his Power Item to use, any gifted energy... Oswald isn't working with any of that. -80% seems perfectly reasonable.
Tymathee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2021, 04:17 AM   #10
Tymathee
 
Tymathee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: I'd rather be alone than be with people who make me feel alone.
Default Re: [DF] Lich PCs in DF - Oswald the Violet

Thankfully no one has scrutinized the prerequisite chains of my spell selection yet, so for the sake of continued transparency Kromm's Wizardry Refined Pyramid article from issue 3/60 was utilized for this character. For those not savvy to the details of the article, it basically goes into better detail as to how Wizards ought to be balanced in DF mostly by restructuring spell prerequisite chains and effectively errata'ing some spell effects that would be particularly offensive in DF.

One hard lesson with posting content to the forum is that I need to be very, very meticulous with my notetaking. No detail is too obvious or trivial to omit. I just don't want my experience on the forum to be a exercise in writing highly comprehensive legalese though... but that's part of the nature of GURPS I suppose. Too bad! I can't expect people to just read my mind, but I don't want to talk down to people as if they don't know any better, or come off as a know-it-all jerk. Some deep meta commentary there.
Tymathee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dungeon fantasy, lich, wizard

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.