russian civil war (osterns)

[The Colonel]

I seem to recall a radio drama about a group of British troops who find themselves manning an armoured train in support of a White army that suddenly disappears, leaving them deep in enemy territory.
Could make for an interesting campaign...

[Easterner9504]

Don't forget lots of Allied interventionists about.

In Tulgas, N. Russia The Allied garrison, about 600 men, was composed of 339th Inf: B Company; a platoon of D Company; one company from the 2nd Battalion, 10th Royal Scots (Sick-light duty); and 57 Canadians of the 67th Battery, 16th Brigade Canadian Field Artillery, in charge of two 18-pounder (3.3-inch) field guns were pinned against the sea in an attack that fell on the 8th hour of the 11th day 1918. US troops were armed with Moissin-Nagants maufactured in the USA.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...p/t-23410.html

The Reds never got within 50 yards before being cut down by murderous blasts of fire; about 100 were killed outright. The Americans and Canadians had started to congratulate each other after stopping the last attack when they suddenly had a chilling thought: The Bolsheviks had also taken over the undefended hospital in the north end of town, and the Allies had already learned that the Bolsheviks treated wounded prisoners with pistol shots.

Not content merely to watch, the Royal Scots made a swift attack on the north end of town during the afternoon, dislodging the Bolsheviks and recapturing the hospital. What they then discovered would probably be dismissed as fiction if it were not so well-documented.

When the Bolsheviks took the hospital without resistance on the morning of the 11th, their commander, true to form, had immediately ordered that all the Allied patients be shot. A high-pitched voice then interrupted, declaring that the first man who pulled a trigger would be shot himself. All eyes turned to see a beautiful woman step forward wearing the standard male Red Army uniform. She turned out to be a fellow officer--and the commander's lover. The Bolshevik commander grudgingly rescinded his order and then led his men in an attack on the 18-pounders in the ravine. Shortly afterward, he was mortally wounded and was brought back to the hospital to die in the presence of "Lady Olga," as the Allies called the woman officer. She stayed to help tend the wounded soldiers of both sides, even after the Scots had taken back the hospital.

[chrisd]

Lets not forget two books by Alexander Fulleton "Look to the Wolves" and "Bloody Sunset" - both basically rescue missions (English Governesses and Russian Noblewomen)

How about "operation kronstadt" by Harry Ferguson - small group of RN personnel working for MI6 landing agents etc.

If you can get hold of it "The Day We Almost Bombed Moscow" has plenty of small vinigettes that could be used as scenario ideas - including the story of 47 Squadron - who were based on an arnoured train and nearly got cut off.

Or how about the Belgian armoured car unit trying to escape across Russia?

I think you would need a copy of pulp guns 2 to get details on the kit.

Chris

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by chrisd

- including the story of 47 Squadron - who were based on an arnoured train and nearly got cut off.

That may be what I heard dramatised

[chrisd]

Another take on the same story is in The Last Train Over Rostov Bridge

Chris D-W
(not that I'm studying this kind of thing or anything...)

[rozumcrans]

A rather interesting book was Fifteen Flags. It dealt with the travails of an isoalted US army force that must cooperate with various other powers if the Russian Far East (including the Czech Legion and the Japanese). They must protect a vital rail line without regard to whoever seeks to use it, fully aware that doing so favors the White army at the expense of the Reds. Also present are rival White army factions and the corss-purposes of the various nations there and their respective attitudes.

The author was gracious enough to provide a list of which historical characters his fictional characters represent. I'll go look up the author l ater today and post it.

[smurf]

5 things to remember

1. World War 1 has ended...

2. Revolution is a real thing all over europe and else where

3. Nothing is simple

4. Multi sided

5. Not to base hindsight on the 'unfolding' events

Other conflicts were easy compared to this. I said this on another thread, but there were 5 types of army and about 14 invading armies.

1. Red Army
2. White Army
3. Blue Army (Entente powers)
4. Green Army (Ukraine)
5. Black Army (Anarchist/Nestor Mankho)

The Entente powers were careful to grab bits for their own interests. UK wanted Baku to prevent the Germans. France aided Poles and a war against Lithunania, the Whites did not recognise it and fought with against the Reds despites the Blues robbing it. And at sometimes in the Ukraine all of the above would fight, with treaties here and there. Recounting the conflicts let alone their motives is a nightmare.

[Ramidel]

Originally Posted by smurf

5 things to remember

Other conflicts were easy compared to this. I said this on another thread, but there were 5 types of army and about 14 invading armies.

1. Red Army
2. White Army
3. Blue Army (Entente powers)
4. Green Army (Ukraine)
5. Black Army (Anarchist/Nestor Mankho)

The Entente powers were careful to grab bits for their own interests. UK wanted Baku to prevent the Germans. France aided Poles and a war against Lithunania, the Whites did not recognise it and fought with against the Reds despites the Blues robbing it. And at sometimes in the Ukraine all of the above would fight, with treaties here and there. Recounting the conflicts let alone their motives is a nightmare.

"Green Armies" and Ukraine had nothing to do with each other.

The Green Armies were peasant bands that were trying to defend their local areas from either side of the war.

[bennyj]

^someone else told me yesterday that the ukranian nationalist forces were called 'the greens'. is it a common misconception or were they known as the greens?

[bennyj]

"The principal fighting occurred between the Bolshevik Red Army and the White Army, the loosely-allied anti-Bolshevik forces. Many foreign armies warred against the Red Army, notably the Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War, yet many volunteer foreigners fought in both sides of the Russian Civil War, including nationalist and regional political groups such as the Ukrainian nationalist Green Army, the Ukrainian anarchist Black Guards, and warlords such as Ungern von Sternberg"

^taken from wiki (not he most reliable of sources but not the worst)

EDIT: but clicking the link to the green army brings up:

"The Green armies, Green Army (Russian: Зелёная Армия), or Greens (Russian: Зелёные) were armed peasant groups which fought against both the Red Army and the White Army in the Russian Civil War. They fought to protect the communities in which they lived from requisitions or reprisals by either side. They were similar to the clubmen which arose during the English Civil War."

so it appears both views are correct (??)