Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Roleplaying in General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-24-2008, 03:44 AM   #1
Agemegos
 
Agemegos's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
Default Survey (Scouts) campaign difficulties

I have an idea for a campaign in my Space setting (Flat Black) which I call 'Survey'. 'Survey' is a campaign schema in which the PCs are among the complement of a special-purpose Imperial spacecraft sent out into the Beyond to take a close-up look at star-systems that for any reason seem likely to be interesting. In some cases they are systems to which human colonists are known to have set off, in other cases they are merely known or likely to have habitable planets.

An Imperial survey frigate generally has a complement of about forty, consisting of (1) naval officers and ratings who fly, maintain, and where necessary fight the ship, (2) diplomats who persuade any colonies encountered to join the Empire, (3) planetologists and sociologists who gather information and perform analyses for the diplomatic team and for reports to the Colonial Office, the Terraformation Service, or the Eichberger Realty Corporation, as appropriate, and (4) a section of marines for security detail. Group (3), the Survey Team, ought to consist of a number of multidisciplinary experts each of which has something to do (a) on an uninhabited planet, to assess its suitability for settlement, (b) on a backward colony, to assess what development assistance it might need, (c) on an advanced colony, gathering the social, political, and economic intelligence that the future Residency staff ought to have so that they can (i) hit the ground running and (ii) get off on the right foot, and (d) on a planet with intelligent autochthones, make first contact.

Survey campaigns consist of an on-going 'bottle' story about the relationships between the PCs and the NPCs on the ship with whom they have to live on extended cruises, interspersed with a series of episodic adventures each having to do with the exploration of a different world. There ought to be a balance of biological/ecological mysteries and man-vs.-Nature stuff on desert planets, anthropological mysteries on backward planets, socio-political mysteries on advanced planets, infiltration, undercover investigations of societies, overt adventure, and so forth.

I think I have run eight Survey campaigns, not counting 'Uninvited Guests' (the LARP at Sydcon '98). Only one was a thoroughgoing success, and that only because it degenerated into one Imperial naval officer and two marines conquering an alien spacefaring civilisation. Problems have included the following:

* Players often insist on playing characters other than members of the Survey team. Usually they want to play marines or naval officers, but on one occasion it was a support technician for the ground crew. The difficulty is that this means that the characters' work doesn't bring them into personal contact with locals, or at least not in conjunction with the other characters. The archetypal adventures hook of the campaign schema is Survey folk trying to gather intelligence, and these characters just don't have the right grommets. But short of doing on jackboots, I can't seem to get everyone to play a planetologist, geologist, climatologist, oceanographer, geographer, ecologist, anthropologist, sociologist, economist, agronomist, technologist, military intelligence type, epidemiologist, or linguist.

* Some players just aren't interested in the interpersonal stuff with the crew, or I can't make it interesting enough.

* This being 'Flat Black', the societies encountered tend very often to be screwed up or otherwise screwed. The social, political, economic, and environmental problems are realistic in this way: they are intractable, or at least well beyond the abilities of a few player characters to address. But I find that players fixate on the intractable great problems to the exclusion of personal-scale problems that they can do something about. Unable to abolish suttee, they can't work up the enthusiasm to save just one widow.

Anyway, I have an idea about how I might make this work better. Each player has four characters: the leader of one team (captain, ambassador, head of Survey, and marines section leader (plus maybe first lieutenant, chief planetologist, or chief social scientist if there are more than four players)) and a junior member of each of the other team. The adventure hooks are more varied, allowing survey team adventures, marines adventures, diplomat's adventures, naval adventures: this allows the players who want to play marines etc. to do so, but not when it is inappropriate. Everybody can get involved in policy discussions in the person of their team-leading character. If -ographer and -ologist characters discover something that ought to be deal with by diplomats or marines, they can pass responsibility where it belongs without the players losing all place in the adventure. And if everything goes well you can leave one group of characters wrestling with the intractable grand problems and cross to a more personal-scale issue with a "meanwhile, down at the aid station".

The down side is that this makes the interpersonal stuff among the crew harder to deal with. But that never seems to work all that well anyway.

Comments?
__________________

Decay is inherent in all composite things.
Nod head. Get treat.
Agemegos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 08:49 AM   #2
Shrale
 
Shrale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Default Re: Survey (Scouts) campaign difficulties

Well, I often find Interesting ideas that no one else seems to like©. Stuff I can quickly assimilate into a small-to-medium campaign. These usually become NPC ideas and backgrounds and purposes for the players to stumble into.

So, I'm not saying your ideas are flawed, they're just...yours. One thing I find in
RPGs is people just want to go their own way. Sci-fi books are different, as readers usually have a much easier time of accepting what the writer tosses their way, but it's no different: there's plenty of books I drop because I just don't find it interesting.

Who are you aiming this at ? Specific friends/players ? Or just a general audience ?

The more general things are, means probably less of a hit to what you're expecting. (Sorry if I'm being too broad or shallow, I understand you're a sharp gamer/gm, but...)

Do you plan on discussing the potential setting with them in detail ? and therefore gauging their responses to cerain key questions which will reveal the details you're hoping to incorporate...

I think the "ta-da!" type of unveiling might go over most players heads, unless you sit down and hammer out some ideas/details, meaning reveal some juicy tid-bits and see if they agree.



>
__________________
"Now you see me, now you don't, woof" -- The Invisible Vargr
.
.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Last edited by Shrale; 05-24-2008 at 08:53 AM.
Shrale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 09:05 AM   #3
Shrale
 
Shrale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Default Re: Survey (Scouts) campaign difficulties

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agemegos

The archetypal adventures hook of the campaign schema is Survey folk trying to gather intelligence, and these characters just don't have the right grommets. But short of doing on jackboots, I can't seem to get everyone to play a planetologist, geologist, climatologist, oceanographer, geographer, ecologist, anthropologist, sociologist, economist, agronomist, technologist, military intelligence type, epidemiologist, or linguist.

* Some players just aren't interested in the interpersonal stuff with the crew, or I can't make it interesting enough.
I can relate, either their take on these professions is different or superficial because of reasons like (but not limited to)

1. They've seen it on tv/movies
2. They know the basics but how do you become the person without knowing the GM's vision of the setting ?
3. Sounds good, but they're quickly lost.
4. Sex, sex, sex that's interpersonal.

and probably a small multitude of other reasons as well.

Would you plan on helping them ? For instance, say I was offered the agronomist, but have no idea what that really involves other than a para in the rulebook for their skills. How do I suddenly become an agronomist that matters in your campaign ?

Would you help them out with "So you try A, then B then C..." and kind of prompt them along ?

For me, the biggest obstacles to overcome (I'm running a one-off Traveller PBP over on COTI) is:

1. Convince the players I'm not a killer-GM. During the 2nd encounter, a rather pedestrian meeting the players were very paranoid.

2. Get the PCs to understand how my uni (IMTU) works.

I have to overcome these with concessions (probably faults in the eyes of other GMs) but sometimes you just have to head them off at the pass, when the 10-minute meeting takes 3 days or their paranoia is just too much.

Same with info, I suddenly had players doing the "I just passed a guy on the street, link with my PDA and get his life history"

< buzzer > then explain the reason for the "fnord, you can't do that"

Do you do things like that ?


>
__________________
"Now you see me, now you don't, woof" -- The Invisible Vargr
.
.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Shrale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 10:15 AM   #4
GoodGame
 
GoodGame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Video games destroyed my life. Good that I have 2 extra lives!
Default Re: Survey (Scouts) campaign difficulties

I think your campaign is an interesting idea, but I'd avoid the players role-playing multiple characters like that. It sounds more like the set-up for a crunchy strategy game.

Could not the PC's wear multiple hats in multiple honorary positions instead of being completely different characters (perhaps on the theme that the PC's are an elite group of extraordinary members of society gifted with high character points, or otherwise influential investors in the operation)? Or could not some of those other roles be filled by NPC's making decisions on random die rolls?
GoodGame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 11:35 AM   #5
combatmedic
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: a crooked, creaky manse built on a blasted heath
Default Re: Survey (Scouts) campaign difficulties

Hummmmm.... I'd just flat out tell my players : ''All PCs must be members of the Survey Team.'' That's the party concept. Sometimes it's good to lay out some broad criteria for what the players can and cannot play. Players who want military backgrounds can have always doen a term or two in the Nay/Army/whatever before swithing to Survey.

I don't think multiple characters would work very well, really. It's very tricky to pull off, tends to create confusion and lack of focus for the players; and often leads to weak RP, as players treat ''extra'' PCs as chess pieces instead of actual characters.


I am surprised no one wants to play a
Quote:
planetologist, geologist, climatologist, oceanographer, geographer, ecologist, anthropologist, sociologist, economist, agronomist, technologist, military intelligence type, epidemiologist, or linguist.
I'd play pretty much any of those in your campaign. Too bad I'm not in your campaign. Sounds fun. A super cool agronomist with high ranks in Agronomy, Shotgun,and Zymurgy [making booze aboard ship, using a micro-still he built himself, using spare parts and junk].
combatmedic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 11:58 AM   #6
Lord Carnifex
 
Lord Carnifex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Default Re: Survey (Scouts) campaign difficulties

I'm actually running a game reasonably similar to this right now. The players each have two PCs, one with the ship's command crew, and one with the marine company's "alpha squad". I'll occasionally hand them one-off pregens for side stories. It actually seems to be working pretty well. Some considerations:

Make sure all party groups are somewhat balanced. The command crew PCs in my game include the CO, XO, Helmsman, Ground Element commander and Chief Science officer. Each represents his/her department in a sense. The alpha squad includes an attached naval engineer with some science skills.

Given that not all character roles are equal in terms of the amount of limelight they're likely to get, try to shift which players run the more prominent PCs of any group. For example, don't let one player run the commanding officer of more than one group.

And try not to let anyone play their own direct superiors. This cuts down dramatically on the need for people to talk to themselves.

Make, or have your players make name tags or choose character appropriate props. One of my players, who is pretty decent at accents has a character with a Russian accent and one with a Western Texas twang. This vastly simplifies figuring out who's talking to who at any given time. Try to avoid switching between character groups except at "chapter breaks", and if possible, have players all playing characters from the same group at the same time.

I also prepared a list of acceptable character roles for each group before hand, and let my players choose which ones they wanted to play. Doing so seemed to simplify things a lot, but won't necessarily work for all groups. Some might rebel at the "straitjacket" constraints.

If someone wants to play a character outside of the roles you're thinking of, you might allow them to do so. But I might insist that their other characters be more in line with what you're looking for. No more than one oddball per character group or per player.

Obviously, these are my ideas. Feel free to do something different if you feel you and your group can handle it.
Lord Carnifex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 12:04 PM   #7
Lord Carnifex
 
Lord Carnifex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Default Re: Survey (Scouts) campaign difficulties

Quote:
Originally Posted by combatmedic
and often leads to weak RP, as players treat ''extra'' PCs as chess pieces instead of actual characters.
This is true to some extent, IME. My current campaign is explicitly Sci-Fi/Military/Horror, so some PC death is expected. I find that some of my strategy oriented rollplayers are enjoying that aspect, and actually roleplaying more, because of a feeling that playing cannon fodder means they don't have to worry about what happens to the characters and they can experiment a little with "non-optimum" characters.
Lord Carnifex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 12:14 PM   #8
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: Survey (Scouts) campaign difficulties

My experience has been that it's possible to run a campaign with multiple characters for each player; I've run several with two each, and one with four. But you have to have the right players. I have one player who detests having to split her focus and won't play in a campaign that demands it.

On the other hand, if your campaign only really works if the PCs are the survey team, is there anything that stops you from defining the campaign as "Players with take the role of members of a field survey team investigating newly discovered worlds"? If it doesn't work to have them play the bus drivers or the security guards, can you just not offer them that option? Sometimes it's easier to get players to stick to the theme if you announce the theme at the outset. Of course, your players might say, "I don't think I want to play that"—but if that's their reaction, you won't get anywhere by tricking them into it, either.

Bill Stoddard
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 05:05 PM   #9
Agemegos
 
Agemegos's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
Default Re: Survey (Scouts) campaign difficulties

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrale
Who are you aiming this at ? Specific friends/players ? Or just a general audience ?
Just at teh moment, no-one in particular. I was just musing on why my recent Survey campaign had been disappointing, and this is something I thought of to make the next one work better.

Quote:
Do you plan on discussing the potential setting with them in detail ?
I customarily do.
__________________

Decay is inherent in all composite things.
Nod head. Get treat.
Agemegos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 05:11 PM   #10
Agemegos
 
Agemegos's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
Default Re: Survey (Scouts) campaign difficulties

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodGame
Could not the PC's wear multiple hats in multiple honorary positions instead of being completely different characters (perhaps on the theme that the PC's are an elite group of extraordinary members of society gifted with high character points, or otherwise influential investors in the operation)?
That would exacerbate the problem of players fixating on the unfixable problems of nations and societies and neglecting the human-scale problems that the adventures are about.

Quote:
Or could not some of those other roles be filled by NPC's making decisions on random die rolls?
Why on random die rolls?

I have run such campaigns about eight times with a full complement of NPCs. I don't think anything will be achieved by having those NPCs behave at random other than to make the players less inclined to trust them with anything important.
__________________

Decay is inherent in all composite things.
Nod head. Get treat.
Agemegos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
flat black, prospectus, sci-fi, troupe style

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.