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Old 10-18-2020, 07:44 PM   #21
Anthony
 
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Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Doing it randomly is appropriate but can be non-trivial when you've got types mixed in odd ratios, and maybe some of them have accuracy modifiers or different Rcl values...
If you're using different ammo types with significantly different ballistics, you have to pick one type you're preferring, and everything else just automatically misses.
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Old 10-18-2020, 07:51 PM   #22
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Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

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If you're using different ammo types with significantly different ballistics, you have to pick one type you're preferring, and everything else just automatically misses.
That's probably wrong considering (A) the mixture of tracer and non-tracer rounds which have moderately but appreciably different ballistics, (B) the possibility that you are firing single shots from a semi-auto or similar weapon, and (C) the traditional buck-and-ball loading.
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Old 10-18-2020, 08:35 PM   #23
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Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
That's probably wrong considering (A) the mixture of tracer and non-tracer rounds which have moderately but appreciably different ballistics, (B) the possibility that you are firing single shots from a semi-auto or similar weapon, and (C) the traditional buck-and-ball loading.
Tracer rounds have the same ballistics as non-tracer rounds, the entire point of tracers is that you can use them to see where your bullets are going, and that means you need to know where all your bullets are going, not just the ones that have tracers. They might have higher dispersion, but that's not something that's correctly represented as Acc in the first place, it's just a skill cap.
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Old 10-18-2020, 09:17 PM   #24
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Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

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Tracer rounds have the same ballistics as non-tracer rounds, the entire point of tracers is that you can use them to see where your bullets are going, and that means you need to know where all your bullets are going, not just the ones that have tracers. They might have higher dispersion, but that's not something that's correctly represented as Acc in the first place, it's just a skill cap.
Actually, they do tend to have slightly different ballistics - usually tracer rounds are a little lighter than normal rounds, and once the tracer has burned out they are very definitely lighter (and have a different centre of gravity as well). The difference isn't considered enough to matter, generally (and if it is, the gunner can be trained to allow for it, in theory) - they aren't used to for target shooting after all.
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Old 10-18-2020, 09:49 PM   #25
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Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

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The difference isn't considered enough to matter, generally.
My definition of 'significantly different' is "will make the difference between hitting and missing". If it isn't significant enough to do that, you can ignore it. If it is significant enough, you have to choose one or the other to focus on, and the bullets using the other ballistics profile just miss.
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Old 10-18-2020, 10:46 PM   #26
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Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

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My definition of 'significantly different' is "will make the difference between hitting and missing". If it isn't significant enough to do that, you can ignore it. If it is significant enough, you have to choose one or the other to focus on, and the bullets using the other ballistics profile just miss.
What will make the difference between hitting and missing is intensely situational. In street fighting, you could probably fire a mix of rubber bullets, regular solids, and sabots and score hits with all three without adjusting aim. In extreme range machine gun fire, tracers and solids might be impossible to land on the same target.
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Old 10-20-2020, 03:48 PM   #27
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Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

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As far as I know most burst fires are there to save ammo, not hit a target with more bullets, so the current GURPS mechanics seems good.
On saving ammo: yes, the three round burst was added to most infantry weapons done at a certain period in the past to save ammo when given to conscripts. Thus most more recent ones do not have such due to the switch to professional armies that are expected to be more able to control their burst lengths.

On Gurps modelling such: the useful breakpoint in GURPS is 5, so a "GURPS optimized" weapon would be 5 shot limited to allow for all the options and still save ammo over longer bursts. So a 3 round burst weapon would actually waste one shot if you try for the 5 shot bonus as you would need to shoot 6 in that case.
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Old 10-20-2020, 05:43 PM   #28
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Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

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What will make the difference between hitting and missing is intensely situational.
Not really. It's almost entirely a function of range, with slight adjustments for weather. It does not, however, in any significant way resemble the rules given in Tactical Shooting (to be fair, it's probably not possible to get physically realistic results in a simple fashion).
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Old 10-20-2020, 05:54 PM   #29
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Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

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Not really. It's almost entirely a function of range, with slight adjustments for weather. It does not, however, in any significant way resemble the rules given in Tactical Shooting (to be fair, it's probably not possible to get physically realistic results in a simple fashion).
Range, target dimension and motion, and what types of round you are mixing. (For instance, you'll have a lot more of a problem if you're simultaneously firing the high and low velocity cannons of some WWII German fighters than if you're firing a LMG with a standard tracer mix.)

Do you have any criticism of the TS rules other than that they assume that you can hit with differing rounds while you prefer to assume that you can't? Because there might be good criticisms but I don't think you've specified any.
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Old 10-20-2020, 05:58 PM   #30
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Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

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On saving ammo: yes, the three round burst was added to most infantry weapons done at a certain period in the past to save ammo when given to conscripts. Thus most more recent ones do not have such due to the switch to professional armies that are expected to be more able to control their burst lengths.
Not that many assault rifles have had burst limiters installed. the M16A2 is probably the most famous, and it well-post dates conscription in the US military.
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On Gurps modelling such: the useful breakpoint in GURPS is 5, so a "GURPS optimized" weapon would be 5 shot limited to allow for all the options and still save ammo over longer bursts. So a 3 round burst weapon would actually waste one shot if you try for the 5 shot bonus as you would need to shoot 6 in that case.
With a bit of training firing a consistent 5-round burst isn't hard with a weapon that fires around RoF10. Also, the next break-point is a 9-round burst, so RoF 9-11 is quite good - even if an over-stressed users just holds down the trigger they get a reasonably efficient burst with +2 to hit.
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