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Old 07-26-2020, 05:43 PM   #1
Say, it isn't that bad!
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Default Ki Slash; or, ranged sword strikes

Let's say I want a skill that allows the character to do damage with a sword (broadswords, in this case) as if they were a ranged weapon. While it's not quite rules as intended, would adding Ranged to the Broadswords skill be balanced?

For example, comparing these skills sets for a DX 14 character:

1) Broadsword-22 [28].
2) Broadsword-20 (Ranged (Selectivity)) [30].
3a) Broadsword-19 [16].
3b) Broadsword-17 (Ranged) [12].

Which set would you benchmark as the most reasonable? Assume a low-superheroic cinematic style of game where martial arts can fire energy blasts with sufficient training.
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Old 07-26-2020, 05:48 PM   #2
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Ki Slash; or, ranged sword strikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad! View Post
Let's say I want a skill that allows the character to do damage with a sword (broadswords, in this case) as if they were a ranged weapon. While it's not quite rules as intended, would adding Ranged to the Broadswords skill be balanced?

For example, comparing these skills sets for a DX 14 character:

1) Broadsword-22 [28].
2) Broadsword-20 (Ranged (Selectivity)) [30].
3a) Broadsword-19 [16].
3b) Broadsword-17 (Ranged) [12].

Which set would you benchmark as the most reasonable? Assume a low-superheroic cinematic style of game where martial arts can fire energy blasts with sufficient training.
There's an Imbuement that allows this explicitly. You might look to Power-Ups 1 for inspiration.
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Old 07-26-2020, 06:13 PM   #3
Ejidoth
 
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Default Re: Ki Slash; or, ranged sword strikes

In general, your options for this are:

1) Build a ranged-sword-slash Innate Attack, and add a perk that lets you use Broadsword instead of a ranged attack skill with that attack. This is the easiest method to do with the core books.

2) Get the Imbue advantage from GURPS Power-Ups 1: Imbuements and use the Project Blow/Broadsword skill. Note that this is a separate skill that you roll to successfully project the blow: you still have to roll Broadsword to hit afterwards.

3) Use the Weapon Buff option in GURPS Thaumatology: Sorcery (based on the previously mentioned Imbuements, the rules in "From Skills to advantages" in Pyramid #3/34, and some enhancements to skip the FP cost or need for rolls) to give the character the ability to project blows with a broadsword as an advantage.
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Old 07-26-2020, 06:19 PM   #4
Say, it isn't that bad!
 
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Default Re: Ki Slash; or, ranged sword strikes

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
There's an Imbuement that allows this explicitly. You might look to Power-Ups 1 for inspiration.
I own it, but overall, I just don't find it particularly exciting. I can't point at anything specific, only that I bought it, skimmed it, and forgot I even had it.

Edit: I already noted "it's not quite rules as intended", but let me clarify: This is custom. I'm asking a balance question on a custom rules idea.
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Old 07-26-2020, 06:33 PM   #5
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Ki Slash; or, ranged sword strikes

I would design it as an alternative attack, a jet attack, for a melee attack. For example, let us say that you have Cutting Attack 10d (Accessibility, Requires Broadsword Weapon, -20%; Melee, 1-2, Dual Attack, -10%; Variable, +5%) [53]. You could have Cutting Attack 4d (Alternative Attack; Broadsword; Accessibility, Requires Broadsword Weapon, -20%; Increased 1/2D Range, 2x, +5%; Increase Range, 10x, +90%; Jet, +0%; Variable, +5%) [11]. Since Jet is already treated as a melee attack, you do not need any extra perks.
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Old 07-26-2020, 06:50 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ki Slash; or, ranged sword strikes

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Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad! View Post
I own it, but overall, I just don't find it particularly exciting. I can't point at anything specific, only that I bought it, skimmed it, and forgot I even had it.
I designed an alternative to imbuements that takes some ideas from Godlike Extra Effort to replace the imbuement skills with Techniques of the original ability. That does require 1 FP per use, but I felt it wouldn't be terrible to allow for avoiding this by taking twice the penalty. For using a sword to generate a ki slash, you'd use the Ranged version of Distant Strike; if using 0 FP, this would default to Broadsword -20 (so you'll want to buy it up to some degree), giving the character a Blockable Acc 3 ranged attack with Range (1/2D and Max) equal to ST and damage the same as the weapon's normal attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad! View Post
Edit: I already noted "it's not quite rules as intended", but let me clarify: This is custom. I'm asking a balance question on a custom rules idea.
It looks like you want to apply an Enhancement on a skill, which I'd recommend against. In addition to just being an odd construct, you also run into the issue that things like increased DX, Talents, etc make the ability cheaper.
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Old 07-26-2020, 06:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ki Slash; or, ranged sword strikes

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Originally Posted by Ejidoth View Post
In general, your options for this are:

1) Build a ranged-sword-slash Innate Attack, and add a perk that lets you use Broadsword instead of a ranged attack skill with that attack. This is the easiest method to do with the core books.
According to Kromm, you don't even need the perk, just GM permission as long as it stays DX-based (Based On is still required if, say, you want to use Intimidation without bringing Intimidation to DX). IA is balanced around use of an Easy skill, so moving it to another skill is fine, especially since this normally means moving it to a more difficult one (such as Broadsword being Average). The most common use I've seen is moving it to Guns which changes nothing.
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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Old 07-26-2020, 06:58 PM   #8
Ejidoth
 
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Default Re: Ki Slash; or, ranged sword strikes

Skills alone really don't work with Enhancements, because a skill can very often just be 1 point, or even 0 points, with most of the actual skill coming from characteristics, talents, or even defaults. Someone else might have the skill at the same level, with 20 points in it but lower base characteristics.

They're both equally skilled, but one is paying twenty times as much as the other for the same benefit if you try to apply the enhancement to the skill points.
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Old 07-26-2020, 07:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: Ki Slash; or, ranged sword strikes

Power Ups 4 talks about modifying strength-based damage. While it normally isn't allowed to add Ranged, that just seems more like something the GM should be aware of. I'd be perfectly okay with someone buying Ranged this way and saying "Only for one weapon skill" or something. This is assuming you want to do it at will. And it might be too cheap (I didn't actually look into the math yet). Melee Capable might also make more sense (in fact that's likely what this is and is the same value).
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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Old 07-26-2020, 07:28 PM   #10
Say, it isn't that bad!
 
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Default Re: Ki Slash; or, ranged sword strikes

Thanks. So it looks like the answer is "It isn't recommended, because someone might buy a high DX, then put 1 point in it.", and "It's ok, as long as the GM pays attention to characters using it."

From there, as an additional rule, perhaps the point-cost of the enhancement could be based on the total skill, calculated as if its base DX was 10? That is, Broadsword-20 costs [+8] if given the Ranged enhancement, regardless of whether the base DX is 10 or 22.

That does bring in the odd case of a DX 6 [-80], Broadsword-6 [1] character gaining back points by taking the Ranged enhancement... but I'd view that more as a munchkin player problem, not a rules problem.

Edit: For a matter of cost, if it is too powerful/useful, the enhancement cost could instead be based on a DX of 0. This would give Broadsword-20 (Ranged) an extra [+29]; at this point, adding Selective for [+36] so you only need one Broadsword-20 skill becomes much more palatable.

Last edited by Say, it isn't that bad!; 07-26-2020 at 07:35 PM.
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