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Old 08-05-2021, 01:03 PM   #41
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: can Jumper (Tunnel) cause harm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
I
Amberites can travel through riding horses since presumably a horse would be within their encumbrance limit. Likewise troops can follow them, provided that each discrete user is within the weight limits. Naturally extended duration would still be necessary to transfer lots of troops and increases area should multiply the number the hexes you can enter from.
Nope, Amberites are strong but only Superman is strong enough to get armies or sailing ships onto his Encumberance limits.

For example, at ST35 an Amberite can pick a big man up with one hand and throw him across a room and 2 of them can lift a Mercedes. However his Extra-Heavy Encumberance is only 2450 lbs which is enough for himself, a single follower and 2 (skinny) horses with very lightly loaded saddlebags. The Mercedes is out of the question unless just maybe it's the lightest early 60s coupe model.

The Princes can lead entire fleets of large sailing ships through Shadow. They'd need Extra-Heavy Encumbrances of thousands of _tons_.

Fortunately the Area Effect Enhancement voids the overall weight limit.
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Old 08-05-2021, 01:14 PM   #42
Plane
 
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Default Re: can Jumper (Tunnel) cause harm?

What's the point in taking Extra-Heavy Carrying Capacity +50% if you could just take Area Effect by itself to have unlimited weight?

I would imagine you would need to take "Affects Others" and each instance you buy would probably give another multiple of capacity...

AE atop Affects Others is an established thing which removes the requirement to touch an ally to Affect them so long as they're in the AE

This creates a bit of a trick though where if you're not strong enough to bring a lot of heavy things (say you're a ST 5 gnome) you could just "Affects Others" to a beast of burden (my loyal ST 30 elephant friend) and have them bring all the gear along.
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Old 08-05-2021, 01:25 PM   #43
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: can Jumper (Tunnel) cause harm?

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What's the point in taking Extra-Heavy Carrying Capacity +50% if you could just take Area Effect by itself to have unlimited weight?

.
Probably none. So don't bother or you can simply forbid Jumpers from taking anything they can't walk down the road with but the Amberite version fo this power will not work if they are limited by theri Extra=heavy encumberances.
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Old 08-05-2021, 02:26 PM   #44
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: can Jumper (Tunnel) cause harm?

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Nope, Amberites are strong but only Superman is strong enough to get armies or sailing ships onto his Encumberance limits.
There are a few others besides Superman strong enough, but that's neither what I intended nor what I put.

The suggestion was that each discrete entity passing through (each second) should be within the weight limit. The aggregate total isn't relevant.

Quote:
Fortunately the Area Effect Enhancement voids the overall weight limit.
I don't see how.
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Old 08-05-2021, 07:57 PM   #45
Plane
 
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Default Re: can Jumper (Tunnel) cause harm?

The greater issue I think, whether you take AE or not, is if you leave a tunnel behind you: are people following after subject to your weight limit?
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Old 08-05-2021, 08:41 PM   #46
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: can Jumper (Tunnel) cause harm?

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
I don't see how.
Perhaps it is the Tunnel enhancement that negates it. That creates a hole behind the user that anyone his size or smaller can go through for 3D6 seconds. I would say that Area Effect makes a bigger hole.

Note that who can go through the hole is not dependant on the Encumbrance of the hole-maker. If it was low ST hole-makers could only be followed through the hole by skinny pursuers.

I would only apply the Encumbrance Limits to things or people the used was actually carrying. Once you've got a way to affect people or things you aren't carrying Encumbrance doesn't matter for them.
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Old 08-05-2021, 09:21 PM   #47
naloth
 
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Default Re: can Jumper (Tunnel) cause harm?

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Perhaps it is the Tunnel enhancement that negates it. That creates a hole behind the user that anyone his size or smaller can go through for 3D6 seconds. I would say that Area Effect makes a bigger hole.
That doesn't seem to mesh well with the two examples from Powers. If weight isn't a factor, why does it seem to be a necessary inclusion for every example we have?

The best assertion I have is still that the maximum that can pass through on any given second is the weight limit. Size seems to matter for being able to touch the portal, not pass through it. Given that SM is a feature and weight seems to be paid for (either via ST, Lifting ST, or Extra Carry Capacity enhancements) that also seems like a fairer way to play it as well.
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Old 08-05-2021, 09:50 PM   #48
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: can Jumper (Tunnel) cause harm?

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
That doesn't seem to mesh well with the two examples from Powers. If weight isn't a factor, why does it seem to be a necessary inclusion for every example we have?
.
If you mean the ones on p. 147 those let anyone go through the Tunnel as long as he isn't carrying too much to move. The Encumbrance limits of the Tunnel-creator don't seem to be a factor.

I think this is redundant and kind of "spend cp for nothing". Of course you can't go through the tunnel if you're too weighed down to move.
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Old 08-06-2021, 02:52 AM   #49
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: can Jumper (Tunnel) cause harm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
That doesn't seem to mesh well with the two examples from Powers. If weight isn't a factor, why does it seem to be a necessary inclusion for every example we have?

The best assertion I have is still that the maximum that can pass through on any given second is the weight limit. Size seems to matter for being able to touch the portal, not pass through it. Given that SM is a feature and weight seems to be paid for (either via ST, Lifting ST, or Extra Carry Capacity enhancements) that also seems like a fairer way to play it as well.

Taking Carrying Capacity on Warp with Tunnel means you can toss more stuff through at a time basically. See this Kromm post.
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Old 08-06-2021, 07:22 AM   #50
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: can Jumper (Tunnel) cause harm?

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
Taking Carrying Capacity on Warp with Tunnel means you can toss more stuff through at a time basically. See this Kromm post.
Thanks Chris. I was looking all over for a post or quote from Kromm or PK and somehow that one eluded me :( I must have missed that thread at the time, 'coz it's the kind of subject that would usually invite my participation.
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