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Old 02-07-2015, 11:46 PM   #71
NineDaysDead
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: Enhanced Senses

Profiling Anomaly
Quote:
Normal Senses and Modifiers
...
the point cost is set at a fraction of the percentage modifier: 1/5 the percentage value of the modifier for vision, 1/10 for hearing, 1/50 for smell and taste, and 1/10 for touch.
Profiling Vision [10]
Profiling Hearing [5]
Profiling Smell and Taste [1]
Profiling Touch [5]

Discriminatory Hearing (Profiling +50%) [23]; Adding Profiling costs 8 extra points, 3 more than Profiling Hearing.

Discriminatory Smell (Profiling +50%) [23]; Discriminatory Taste (Profiling +50%) [15]; Adding Profiling costs 13 extra points, 12 more than Profiling Smell and Taste.


Quote:
Visual Profiling

You automatically memorize any visual pattern you encounter – faces, fingerprints, maps, works of art – without an IQ roll. You make rolls to recognize and analyze visual images at +4, by comparing them with your mental database.
So if one had:
Profiling Vision [10]
Profiling Hearing [5]
Profiling Smell and Taste [1]
Profiling Touch [5]

Would that effectively include Photographic Memory [10]?
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Old 02-08-2015, 12:23 AM   #72
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: Enhanced Senses

So change Detect Matter to Detect Mass. Problem solved.
As for the TS comparison the numbers come pretty close and would not the difference possibly just be the ability to analyze vs. the ability to spot and target?
Edit: Seems like Nikki would have looked it over in editing. Looking at it I guess Kromm didn't do the editing here.
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Old 02-08-2015, 12:32 AM   #73
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: Enhanced Senses

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
Profiling Anomaly


Profiling Vision [10]
Profiling Hearing [5]
Profiling Smell and Taste [1]
Profiling Touch [5]

Discriminatory Hearing (Profiling +50%) [23]; Adding Profiling costs 8 extra points, 3 more than Profiling Hearing.

Discriminatory Smell (Profiling +50%) [23]; Discriminatory Taste (Profiling +50%) [15]; Adding Profiling costs 13 extra points, 12 more than Profiling Smell and Taste.
Yes. It's an anomaly. But Profiling is defined primarily as an enhancement of Discriminatory; you wouldn't apply it directly to Hearing. The trick is that vision inherently does what hearing, smell, or taste has to be Discriminatory to do. So vision has to be built a bit differently. I'm not all that uncomfortable with Profiling costing 10 with vision, 8 with hearing or smell, and 5 with taste; they're all in the same neighborhood.

It rather seems to me that Profiling Vision and Photographic Memory, which have the same cost, do very similar things. I'm not sure it would be wrong to think of Photographic Memory as the GURPS name for Profiling Vision, or as a modestly tweaked variant of it.
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Old 02-08-2015, 12:37 AM   #74
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: Enhanced Senses

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
If you have the Analyzing +100% enhancement and you make your IQ roll, then yes to both questions.
I don't think I agree. That's not how I would play it, at any rate, any more than I would play that Detect Minerals let you know that that large object made of minerals over there was a bulldozer, or a brick house, or a statue of Zeus, even though things like "Detect Machine" are clearly legitimate. I refer you to Terry Pratchett's scene in Thief of Time of the Auditors disassembling the painting, looking for the molecules that make it art. . . .

The Basic Set gives simple, handwavy descriptions of a lot of things. But sometimes those imply things that don't quite make sense, and it's appropriate to reinterpret them.
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Old 02-08-2015, 05:21 AM   #75
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: Enhanced Senses

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I don't think I agree. That's not how I would play it, at any rate, any more than I would play that Detect Minerals let you know that that large object made of minerals over there was a bulldozer, or a brick house, or a statue of Zeus, even though things like "Detect Machine" are clearly legitimate. I refer you to Terry Pratchett's scene in Thief of Time of the Auditors disassembling the painting, looking for the molecules that make it art. . . .

The Basic Set gives simple, handwavy descriptions of a lot of things. But sometimes those imply things that don't quite make sense, and it's appropriate to reinterpret them.
I don't get it. The whole point with analyzing it's let you... ah... make a make a detailed analysis. And if you payd a 100% for that (and possibly 60 points in the case of Detect Matter with Analyzing), I would assume that could do those things (notice the difference between the above items).

What's the problem then? Well, maybe the problem it's the definition of matter used in the advantage. Because, for some people, "matter" would include all realistic life as far I know, all minerals... and would be beyond the 30 points advantage (after all, Detect Life and Detect Minerals are both 30 points each).

When you say or write "matter", I assume that you are using the word with a similar definition to that used in physics. And in this sense, we are all matter. So, a "true Detect Matter" with Analyzing could, in theory, tell the difference between those things. But a "true Detect Matter", in this sense, is beyond the 30 points, since that encompasses a number of other 30 points advantages.


Anyway, sorry of any english mistakes.
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Old 02-08-2015, 08:52 AM   #76
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: Enhanced Senses

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Originally Posted by Arcanjo7Sagi View Post
I don't get it. The whole point with analyzing it's let you... ah... make a make a detailed analysis. .
<shrug> Detect Matter lets you know "That's Matter over there.".
Detect and Analyze tells you what kind of Matter it is, possibly in high detail such as elemental composition and quantity. Probably a certain elemental composition tells you "that's meat".

Would the ability ever tell you if it's a live human or a dead sheep? I don't think so. You'd need Detect shape, motion, temperature or possibly several other things in combination.

Even Detect and Analyze Life would only get you as far as "live human or live sheep". You couldn't detect the Dead sheep at all.

Really, there's no way Detect Specific Whatever ever leads you to omniscience.
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Old 02-08-2015, 08:56 AM   #77
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: Enhanced Senses

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Originally Posted by Arcanjo7Sagi View Post
When you say or write "matter", I assume that you are using the word with a similar definition to that used in physics. And in this sense, we are all matter. So, a "true Detect Matter" with Analyzing could, in theory, tell the difference between those things. But a "true Detect Matter", in this sense, is beyond the 30 points, since that encompasses a number of other 30 points advantages.
* Matter is a legitimate category if Energy is a legitimate category; the two have roughly comparable extent.

* There are in fact far too many categories to fit into the four level scheme in the Basic Set. Consider: You could locate me with Detect Matter, Detect Organic Matter, Detect Living Matter, Detect Multicellular Living Matter, Detect Animal, Detect Vertebrate, Detect Air-Breathing Vertebrate, Detect Mammal, Detect Placental, Detect Primate, Detect Human, Detect Male Human, and narrower categories. That's way more than four, and really Detect Male Human can't be called "rare," so you're actually talking about three. So some sets of them are on the same level. And if that's true, then you can have Detect Matter be on the same level as Detect Life or Detect Minerals, because things being on the same level is unavoidable, and because there isn't any higher level to put it on.

* The idea that a higher-level Detect can tell you anything whatever about an object that falls within its purview looks to me to be an oversimplification. Say you have Detect Organic Matter. I take you to a museum with an insect collection. Does your ability to detect matter let you know that this insect in this case is a viceroy butterfly rather than a monarch butterfly? Or is that something you can know only if you have Biology (Entomology) in your skills list, and have enough analytical ability to discern the microanatomical species traits of the two?

* As it explains in GURPS Powers, Detect is actually used for three different sorts of things: Senses that normal human beings don't have; supernatural abilities to detect things that fall into known conceptual categories; and abilities to detect things like magic that don't actually exist in the real world. At least in the first case, I think the most sensible way to take it is to say that if you have Detect X, then you have the ability to detect whatever trait it is that characterizes all X as such. The characteristic of all matter as such is (rest) mass.

* In any case, that's kind of a semantic issue. You can call it Detect Mass instead of Detect Matter if you like. But if you want a power that can tell how much matter there is in a given locus, it pretty much has to be mechanicked as a Detect.
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:04 AM   #78
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: Enhanced Senses

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
<shrug> Detect Matter lets you know "That's Matter over there.".
Detect and Analyze tells you what kind of Matter it is, possibly in high detail such as elemental composition and quantity. Probably a certain elemental composition tells you "that's meat".

Would the ability ever tell you if it's a live human or a dead sheep? I don't think so. You'd need Detect shape, motion, temperature or possibly several other things in combination.

Even Detect and Analyze Life would only get you as far as "live human or live sheep". You couldn't detect the Dead sheep at all.

Really, there's no way Detect Specific Whatever ever leads you to omniscience.
That doesn't seem to be Kromm's view:

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
On 1,000 points? Forget about the Wolverine shtick. Just get Cerebro in your head:
Cosmic Tracking: Detect (Living Beings; Analyzing, +100%; Cosmic, No die roll required, +100%; Long-Range 2, +100%; Precise, +100%; Reflexive, +40%; Time-Spanning, Past & Future, +100%; World-Spanning, All, +100%) [222]. Notes: Detects any living being at any distance, in any time or plane of existence, unless protected by a Cosmic version of Obscure. No conscious action or die roll is required on your part . . . as soon as you think of someone, you know exactly where and when he is -- down to the centimeter and second! Even when you're not trying to track a specific person, you know the location of every single living being in creation, although you'll usually only care about the ones you know or who are nearby. 222 points.
If it matters that you track other things, then get these:
Cosmic Machine Sense: Detect (Machines; Analyzing, +100%; Cosmic, No die roll required, +100%; Long-Range 2, +100%; Precise, +100%; Reflexive, +40%; Time-Spanning, Past & Future, +100%; World-Spanning, All, +100%) [222]. Notes: Detects any machine at any distance, in any time or plane of existence, unless protected by a Cosmic version of Obscure. No conscious action or die roll is required on your part . . . as soon as you think of a device, you know exactly where and when it is -- down to the centimeter and second! Even when you're not trying to track a specific machine, you know the location of every single piece of machinery in creation, from the concealed pistol on the man across the room to the galaxy-eating robot in a distant parallel universe. 222 points.

Cosmic Sense of the Supernatural: Detect (Supernatural Entities; Analyzing, +100%; Cosmic, No die roll required, +100%; Long-Range 2, +100%; Precise, +100%; Reflexive, +40%; Time-Spanning, Past & Future, +100%; World-Spanning, All, +100%) [148]. Notes: Detects any supernatural entity at any distance, in any time or plane of existence, unless protected by a Cosmic version of Obscure. No conscious action or die roll is required on your part . . . as soon as you think of such a being, you know exactly where and when it is -- down to the centimeter and second! Even when you're not trying to track a specific entity, you know the location of every single supernatural being, from the demon lords in Hell to the street address of every ghost and vampire. 148 points.
If your GM allows, just make these alternative abilities:
Omniscience [297] = Cosmic Tracking [222] + Cosmic Machine Sense [222/5 = 45] + Cosmic Sense of the Supernatural [148/5 = 30]
But if you do that, then while you're tracking one of people, machines, or the supernatural, you won't have your reflexive sensitivity to the other two.

Anyway, you'll have about 700 points left over for other things. If you're worried about the GM pulling a fast one and saying that something isn't a living being, machine, or paranormal thing, then you can use some of those points to pick up things from Powers like Remote Viewing [115] and Ultra-Scan [100], so you can see everything in the world "visually" and analyze distant objects like a Star Trek scanner.

Seriously, though . . . the whole ninja-stalking-and-sneaking-with-finely-tuned-senses shtick is aiming too low on 1,000 points.
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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Please reread the Detect advantage, because you're missing a crucial part of its value: "Detect also includes the ability to analyze what you detect." Someone with Detect (Gold) can detect only gold, and then roll vs. IQ to analyze various peculiarities limited to gold. Someone with Detect (Metal) can detect aluminium, copper, gold, iron, osmium, platinum, silver, tin, and dozens of other things, and can make an IQ roll to determine which one; in effect, it acts as Detect (Gold) and a whole family of other Detect advantages.
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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Basically, Detect can detect any subset within its purview – that's why broader forms of Detect cost more, not less. What allows this to work is not excluding a known source or specifying a subset before the search starts, but making the IQ roll for analysis afterward. The simplest way for the GM to handle this is to make the Per roll, look up the margin on the Size and Speed/Range Table to find the range, and then have an IQ roll assess the nature of any appropriate targets within that radius. The better the IQ roll, the more specific the details.
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:07 AM   #79
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: Enhanced Senses

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
That doesn't seem to be Kromm's view:
Please note that Kromm's (no doubt off-the-cuff) Omniscience build wills still not Detect a dead sheep.
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:12 AM   #80
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: Enhanced Senses

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Please note that Kromm's (no doubt off-the-cuff) Omniscience build wills still not Detect a dead sheep.
But Detect Matter will. Dead sheep being made of Matter. Machines are also made of matter, as are Living Beings. This is why Matter looks too broad a category.
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