can Jumper (Tunnel) cause harm?

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

Now I'm curious. Where did that one go? What made it different?

As I recall, it led to a myth parallel, that was far-distant on the Astral from the world where the tunnel started.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Plane

This is more along the lines of "I accidentally risk harming myself and my allies" than "I intentionally use this to harm enemies" though.

Sort of the way that gates are portrayed in the "Rick and Morty" cartoons, where opening gates in built-up areas or near other people has the potential to cut people or things in half.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by RyanW

I would personally say that anything in transit either gets pushed through to the destination, back to the origin, toward whichever they are most in, or holds the portal open (and allowing Things Man Was Not Meant to Know push their way through). Pick when designing the power.

Yeah, except I wouldn't let it hold it open, that looks like an invitation to gaming the built-in limit. My preferred default would be that the portal closes *behind* you, so you'd always make it through if you were touching it when it closed.

It should only harm you if you trip or something (like critically failing Body Sense).

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Sort of the way that gates are portrayed in the "Rick and Morty" cartoons, where opening gates in built-up areas or near other people has the potential to cut people or things in half.

There's probably some kind of rule against warping into an occupied space, so having some kind of linked Cutting Attack where it first clears the space (cleaves whatever is occupying it) could represent something like that.

A less gruesome more pacifist way might be to have some sort of crushing attack w/ knockback linked to warp, that way you can shove something out of the way and take it's place.

Since you're not actually shooting a bolt in most cases, this should probably be a linked Malediction-type attack.

Since a very long-range high-knockback power would be pretty expensive, another route rather than Link (if you're okay not needing simultaneity) would be to make this an Alternate Ability, and then you can just knock something out of the way first, switch to your Warp, and then warp into the empty space.

This could create some problems if it gives them time to re-occupy the space, particularly if you need to spend a lot of time preparing your warp to get a bonus.

To get around that, I think there's a solution: just get Onset or Delay or Triggered Delay on the Crushing Attack. Then you can target the spot you want to inflict Knockback onand trigger the attack but it won't actually take effect until later when you've prepped your Warp.

If we take some kind of expansive "all space is occupied by air! Warp should only work in a vacuum" then maybe all non-space Warpers should have to buy some kind of low-cost 1-dmg knockback attack to scatter the air molecules?

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Yeah, except I wouldn't let it hold it open, that looks like an invitation to gaming the built-in limit.

My first thought was that it would be hard to game, because anything that blocks the tunnel from closing also blocks anything else from going through (the tunnel seals around it, but can't fully close until the block is removed). I don't see it as something like an iris that can be held open from the edge.

Assuming you can't open a new tunnel until the first one closes, there are many ways that this would be more a nuisance than a boon.

[Fred Brackin]

[QUOTE=Not another shrubbery;2391155. My preferred default would be that the portal closes *behind* you, so you'd always make it through if you were touching it when it closed.

).[/QUOTE]

My reading of the rules for the Jumper+Tunnel combination has always been that the Tunnel _opens_ with your body and then closes behind you 3D6 seconds later. When making some sort of "Prince of Amber" like character I would add Area Effect so the Tunnel opens in front of your horse's head. Add lots of levels to let the bowsprit of your ship be where the Tunnel starts. Add Extended Duration to let an army march through behind you.

Having the tunnel begin at some place in front of you and let other people go before you and then have it close behind you is nowhere close to the default rules. You'd need probably Area Effect as well as Usable at Range and some sort of Cosmic too.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by RyanW

My first thought was that it would be hard to game, because anything that blocks the tunnel from closing also blocks anything else from going through (the tunnel seals around it, but can't fully close until the block is removed). I don't see it as something like an iris that can be held open from the edge.

That feels fiddly to me, and even with that restriction in place, it seems like PCs (being an inventive lot) would still find ways to make it useful. Do you mean it to be just a special effect of the portal closing behind you?

Assuming you can't open a new tunnel until the first one closes, there are many ways that this would be more a nuisance than a boon.

That's been mentioned before, but I don't recall a ruling supporting it. Do you know of one? It would be unusual for an enhancement to limit a normal application of an ability without being explicit.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

My reading of the rules for the Jumper+Tunnel combination has always been that the Tunnel _opens_ with your body and then closes behind you 3D6 seconds later. When making some sort of "Prince of Amber" like character I would add Area Effect so the Tunnel opens in front of your horse's head. Add lots of levels to let the bowsprit of your ship be where the Tunnel starts. Add Extended Duration to let an army march through behind you.

Having the tunnel begin at some place in front of you and let other people go before you and then have it close behind you is nowhere close to the default rules. You'd need probably Area Effect as well as Usable at Range and some sort of Cosmic too.

Just to be clear, I meant "you, the last character through the Portal when its duration expired" rather then "you, the creator of the Portal".

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

That feels fiddly to me, and even with that restriction in place, it seems like PCs (being an inventive lot) would still find ways to make it useful.

An obvious option is to shove a cylinder partially through the portal, such that you can continue using it by walking/crawling through the cylinder. If it only stays open where the cylinder is (rather than for the air the cylinder contains), use a cylinder filled with water and swim through. If liquid can't keep the portal open, it's back to a closing portal being a weapon, as it cuts off the target's blood supply. There's also pretty serious issues if the target has any sort of irregular shape to it, including for a human - if it closes with your neck in it, sure you aren't decapitated now, but you're also stuck, as the new portal is only as wide as your neck and thus you can't pull your head through (as your skull is wider than your neck, at least for the vast majority of people) and can't push the rest of your body through either (thanks to your torso being wider than your neck). Unless the portal can stretch to accommodate the rest of whatever was stuck through... but then you just need a container with a rope going through the portal, and you can pull whatever you've put in the container through (put a rope at both ends and you can keep the portal open, going back and forth as needed).

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Varyon

An obvious option is to shove a cylinder partially through the portal, such that you can continue using it by walking/crawling through the cylinder. .

Unless the Tunnel is opened by creature larger than SM 0 or has Enhancenements on it it will be "one person" wide.

That'd be 6 feet tall and 20 inches wide if I was the Tunnel-maker. You'd end up with a tight cylinder in that case. Skinny people only and they'd mostly need to be pushed through your pipeline instead of walking or crawling. Leprechauns could walk through it but Leprechauns don't need these sorts of things.

It's still awfully hard to literally weaponize because it closes behind the Tunnel--maker in a random number of seconds.

If you really just _have_ to worry about these sorts of things you rule that the edges of the tunnel are "soft" and go "poof" harmlessly around things still in them when they close.

The fiddly details about closing are probably only in the Jumper/Tunnel rules to make it a little difficult for PCs to use and not entirely safe as a way to elude pursuers.

[naloth]

I'm inclined to say that the portal sucks through whatever touches it, provided it doesn't exceed the weight limit. That nicely fixes the "halfway through" and the "can I fit through short and stout Bob's portal" issues. It also nicely fits with the examples in G:Powers since they have Extra-Heavy Extra Carrying Capacity (which isn't terribly meaningful if you can push through any volume that fixes the portal size).


Amberites can travel through riding horses since presumably a horse would be within their encumbrance limit. Likewise troops can follow them, provided that each discrete user is within the weight limits. Naturally extended duration would still be necessary to transfer lots of troops and increases area should multiply the number the hexes you can enter from.