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02-03-2013, 04:35 PM | #1 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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[Social Engineering] Manipulation, 'Bad Guy Coolness' and related stuff . . .
Greetings, all!
Thinking some more on the Magnificent Bastard, the Renegade Shepard, and other stuff, got this idea: An archetypical Renegade's highest Influence skill is Intimidation. However, fictional Renegades do manage to convince people using methods other than by threatening them. One of the methods is to leverage the toughness and scariness into traits that are nice to have on one's side, while still relying on the more diplomatic (or appealing, or whatever) approach. Well, seems like Social Engineering already has support for it: the Manipulation rules (SE37). Use Intimidation as the Manipulation skill (displaying toughness, but making it visible that any bad stuff will be done to the mutual enemies etc.), and the Influence skill would be Diplomacy, Sex Appeal, or the other, less likely ones. Now you get a +3 to the Influence roll, compensating for a lower skill; since Intimidation is not used as an Influence skill in this context, you don't get the -3 if you're performing a Request for Aid*; you get the neat Very Good reaction of Sex Appeal or the risk-free roll of Diplomacy. You still risk a Very Bad reaction if you fail your Intimidation vs. IQ roll. Speaking of the Manipulation roll, it seems that it will negate such issues as high Will, Fearlessness and even Unfazeable (since you're not trying to scare the target). On the other hand, since it isn't an Influence roll, it doesn't benefit from Charisma. (Actually, it's sometimes overlooked that Charisma is useful for Intimidation.) Since this isn't an officially enumerated form of Manipulation, I wonder if a PC needs a special Perk to have access to it. ----------------------- Speaking of Intimidation in general, maybe I'm sleepy and inattentive, but I can't find the specific rules on the fact that trying to use Intimidation on someone is likely to ruin the relationships/reaction/loyalty in the long term. If this isn't the case, then being an evil overlord is more point-efficient than I thought. Either way, what else should be considered by a character who is meant to be somewhat controlling/dominating in order to sway underlings (and perhaps even formally equal work partners) to gradually accept him as a leader (formal or otherwise), strict but reasonably fair? I guess this comes as Clique-Forming Theory or something; perhaps it is. Thanks in advance! |
02-05-2013, 02:23 AM | #2 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: [Social Engineering] Manipulation, 'Bad Guy Coolness' and related stuff . . .
Another bit that, it appears, I was missing for all those years:
Fearlessness adds to Will for purposes of Fright Checks, and subtracts from people's Intimidation attempts. However, it also adds to Will to resist Intimidation. So yeah, I just discovered that Fearlessness is twice as useful against Intimidation as against resisting other fearful stuff. Well, it seems that when it comes to Manipulation (m:Intimidation, i:Diplomacy), the double-dip will be gone: Fearlessness will still subtract from the Intimidation skill, but will not add to the Will roll (since the Manipulation roll is against IQ, while the Influence roll isn't an Intimidation roll). That's one of those non-obvious bits that is nice to know. So, hundred views and no comments? |
02-05-2013, 12:45 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: [Social Engineering] Manipulation, 'Bad Guy Coolness' and related stuff . . .
In principle, it looks workable.
Can't really comment on the specifics of Social Engineering and why something didn't make it in there, but in my games, using Intimidation for your interactions with someone would certainly not be conductive to a fruitful long-term relationship.
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02-10-2013, 10:51 AM | #4 | |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: [Social Engineering] Manipulation, 'Bad Guy Coolness' and related stuff . . .
Quote:
Likewise, there's the interesting issue of whether a given (N)PC should shift reaction towards more negative or more positive with repeated successful attempts. (And this need not be limited to Intimidation.) Examples: The standard bully/domestic abuse/master-and-Igor plot, where the victim(s) tolerate being intimidated again and again, until having enough of it and deciding to wreck retribution (sometimes disproportional). (Neutral -> Bad.) As above, but with eventually being broken and becoming loyal, such turning an Unwilling Ally into a Minion Ally. (Neutral -> Good.) Another more sine-wave example would be repeated successful attempts at seduction on a character who is negatively predisposed to casual relationships (but not negatively enough to enjoy complete immunity to all attempts). So the reaction would go neutral -> Very Good (success) -> Bad (morning after) -> Very Good (subsequent success) -> ... Possibly culminating in a discarding of aforementioned quirks, a generally Good reaction and an establishing of an on-and-off relationship . . . or not! (Or perhaps a change of the seducer's general reaction and traits, and an establishing of a stable relationship - who knows.) (I guess this is resolved by simultaneous use of Seduction and Building Trust mechanics by two parties.) |
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02-10-2013, 07:31 PM | #5 | |||
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan
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Re: [Social Engineering] Manipulation, 'Bad Guy Coolness' and related stuff . . .
Quote:
(*Being big on story and all that, I'd prefer if they can give me a good description of how that dialogue unspools.) Quote:
Anything involving getting a minion to go "above and beyond" is reasonably interpretable as a "request for aid," which per SE would be "grudging" if elicited by Intimidation. And, of course, there is the simple reasonableness of having an Intimidation-based relationship not work out well, but we already knew that. Quote:
A simpler option might be to have this person regularly use Fast-Talk or Acting in conjunction with their Intimidation, the lie being "you weren't intimidated into this decision, I persuaded you of it." For many people, this might be a lie they wish to believe. |
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02-11-2013, 10:13 PM | #6 | |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: [Social Engineering] Manipulation, 'Bad Guy Coolness' and related stuff . . .
Quote:
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intimidation, leadership, manipulation, social engineering |
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