Ludicrous question of the day: drivers in sidecars?

[juris]

I had to google that word - serious Fallout vibe

Looks like a windshell to me...

Now find what a cycle with component armor around the driver looks like because I can't figure that one out :)

Originally Posted by swordtart

I have a new word.

DALNIK.

http://www.hedonia.net/art/images/vehicles/nsu002.jpg

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by kjamma4

In my somewhat limited search, I did not find any designs with a gunner in a sidecar.

Strike that.

See the Rat on p. 8 of the Combat Showcase which does have a gunner in a sidecar.

[43Supporter]

Rather than allowing bikes armor in all locations, I experimented with the following:

Any attack entering the front half of the cycle counter (including dropped weapons) hits the F armor; any attack entering the back half (i.d.w.) hits the B armor; "tie" goes to F armor. When Windshells become available, they take damage after which-ever side's armor takes the hit.

(Also: Windshells may be used with Sidecars, but the sidecar must have Streamlining in order for the whole rig to get the Windshell-streamlining bonus; a Windshell-equipped bike with a non-Streamlined sidecar would have to jettison the sidecar to get the Windshell-streamlining bonus.)

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by 43Supporter

Rather than allowing bikes armor in all locations, I experimented with the following:

Any attack entering the front half of the cycle counter (including dropped weapons) hits the F armor; any attack entering the back half (i.d.w.) hits the B armor; "tie" goes to F armor.

Yes.

I'd go with all cycles and sidecars automatically come with Windshells as part of their construction with the stated benefits and you can then streamline them again. Armor just makes the Windshell stronger. Jettison the rules about being able to jettison the Windshell as it is an integral part of the vehicle build.

If you want an open-air cycle, see Chassis & Crossbow.

[swordtart]

If you do that you are adding more exceptions to the rules. My way you can use the same rules as cars.

My way also doesn't invalidate any existing designs as they are just the sub-set that only put armour on the front and back.

In reality the weight limit on cycles will mean that the majority have little or no armour on the sides, top and bottom, maybe one or two points to keep the rider from being exposed. Armour 2 points thick is equivalent to a wind shell. It is not however universal (which was always daft to my mind) but also won't weight quite as much as the 100lb for 12 points of the windshell so you can afford to have 24 points for the same weight (probably 4 each T,U,L,R)

The concept of DALNIK was a two wheeled car. The one shown previously looks like a streamlined cycle shell, but how about this one. It looks like a half-size sports car.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-9...alnik-D-01.jpg

This makes it very clear that it is a car not a bike. It even has the normal steering wheel arrangement (with what looks like the clutch lever on the wheel rather than as a pedal).

http://bikeweb.com/files/images/Daln...h%20museum.jpg

Classic CW bikes are really all chassis and crossbow vehicles (and really should benefit from fixed mounts).

Ride out of the darkness brothers!!!

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by swordtart

Since rider and gunners both take up the same 2 spaces in a cycle as in they do in a car (despite being classed as exposed) the extra driver controls should operate the same way.

Extra driver controls in a car aren't going to need to be set up for multiple vehicles.

Commercial sidecars are going to need to be fitted to a variety of cycles; I wouldn't allow extra controls in those.

Custom? at the point you're putting in extra controls, just move to trike design...

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

Commercial sidecars are going to need to be fitted to a variety of cycles; I wouldn't allow extra controls in those.

Custom? at the point you're putting in extra controls, just move to trike design...

Well, the off-the-lot model vs. custom made was always hazy in CW.

In my mind, most of the controls in CW are more hybrid mechanical/video game controls[*] rather than the mostly mechanical as in 1980's vehicles.

Assuming you agree that a sidecar could have extra driver controls, then a commercial sidecar in CW would have to have this as a viable option in order to be commercial. I would think that adding the controls would be mostly mechanical in the sidecar itself and some sort of wiring in the connector between the sidecar and cycle itself.
[*] In my mind, one of the easiest offsets to the "CW does not model reality" arguments is to set it in a futuristic video game. Driver controls and gunners don't make sense in real life - no problem, they work perfectly fine in a video game.

[swordtart]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

Extra driver controls in a car aren't going to need to be set up for multiple vehicles.

And they are in cycles? A sidecar is not a separate vehicle.

Jettison Joinings - "...once they are fired, the sidecar becomes a separate vehicle" so clearly it wasn't beforehand. Extra driver controls clearly can't control the bike once the sidecar is separated.

[swordtart]

Originally Posted by kjamma4

In my mind, most of the controls in CW are more hybrid mechanical/video game controls[*] rather than the mostly mechanical as in 1980's vehicles.

This is supported by remote control receivers taking up no space and weight and being able to fully control all driving and gunner functions. With no-one in the vehicle you are relying on cameras and servos etc. This indicates that all this is part of the chassis by default.

When actually in the car you get slightly better feedback through screeching tires, G-forces and the vibrations from rounds hitting the vehicle (hence the . You probably have transparent armour sections to see out as well. Gunners do not rely on actually seeing the vehicle with the naked eye or IR targeting systems would be redundant as you would use IR goggles instead.

Autopilot and Computer Gunners take no space and therefore all the systems required to control the vehicle and weapons systems are part of the chassis.

Tellingly autopilot is available for a cycle-sidecar combination (presumably because a stationary bike will fall over). If you can control a bike without allocating space for driver controls, you could operate it from a sidecar instead.

QED.

[LokRobster]

Originally Posted by swordtart

I have a new word.

DALNIK.

I will now allow cycles to have armour in all locations (as long as you pay the cost). This protects the whole bike. No components are exposed other than the wheels (and they count as being protected by wheel guards for free).

http://www.hedonia.net/art/images/vehicles/nsu002.jpg

That’s a cool concept drawing!

Imagination would be challenged to come up with gyroscopic balances (and neural interface controls?) to make that an effective, safe and maneuverable cycle; but bullets flying around would be a mighty motivator in getting a fully armored design out there :)