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Old 07-25-2010, 09:56 PM   #41
Ze'Manel Cunha
 
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Default Re: REALLY Difficult Locks

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Isn't a Slim Jim more like forced entry?
The distinction between lockpicking vs jimmying/forced entry is pretty vague and seems covered under the same single skill until you actually step back and kick in the door.

There are plenty of situations where actually picking the lock is impossible or ridiculously time consuming, but bypassing that lock and opening the latch can be easily done
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Old 07-25-2010, 10:30 PM   #42
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Default Re: REALLY Difficult Locks

I'm pretty sure both lockpicking and forced entry should be applied to the whole setup, rather than considering the lock and the latch as seperate things. If I were running a game, I'd use lockpicking for any time you want to be quite or be able to close the door again, and forced entry for fast/don't care.
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Old 07-25-2010, 10:40 PM   #43
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Default Re: REALLY Difficult Locks

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Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha View Post
That was jimmying.

It's generally the difference between making the tumblers move to the unlock position in a lock and using a credit card to push back the latch, or other brute force method to pry open a lock...
I used to be able to pick a lock (it's been years since I stopped practicing), but anytime I actually needed one open I just used a sledgehammer or mallet.

Often you can spring a cheap padlock open with no harm to the door/latch/etc by just whacking the lock a couple times.
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Old 07-26-2010, 10:27 AM   #44
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Default Re: REALLY Difficult Locks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk
I used to be able to pick a lock (it's been years since I stopped practicing), but anytime I actually needed one open I just used a sledgehammer or mallet.

Often you can spring a cheap padlock open with no harm to the door/latch/etc by just whacking the lock a couple times.
*blink*
An unusual hobby, neh?
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Old 07-26-2010, 10:30 AM   #45
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Default Re: REALLY Difficult Locks

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
*blink*
An unusual hobby, neh?
How unusual depends on your circles. I've seen a room-full of people sitting around picking various locks...
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Old 07-26-2010, 10:36 AM   #46
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Default Re: REALLY Difficult Locks

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
*blink*
An unusual hobby, neh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
How unusual depends on your circles. I've seen a room-full of people sitting around picking various locks...

I imagine it has much the same appeal as a Rubiks Cube or other puzzle. Some people love puzzles. I am those people. Although I dont do it, I can see how it could be fun.

As to the Lockpick/Jimmy/Smash vs Forced Entry/Lockpicking, I think the rules are pretty clear about when to use which one. If your doing damage to the lock or housing, use either a melee skill, forced entry or other suitable skill. If your attempting to open the lock while leaving the structure and lock in tact and undamaged, thats lockpicking.

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Old 07-26-2010, 01:10 PM   #47
Ze'Manel Cunha
 
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Default Re: REALLY Difficult Locks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk View Post
I used to be able to pick a lock (it's been years since I stopped practicing), but anytime I actually needed one open I just used a sledgehammer or mallet.

Often you can spring a cheap padlock open with no harm to the door/latch/etc by just whacking the lock a couple times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nymdok View Post
As to the Lockpick/Jimmy/Smash vs Forced Entry/Lockpicking, I think the rules are pretty clear about when to use which one. If your doing damage to the lock or housing, use either a melee skill, forced entry or other suitable skill. If your attempting to open the lock while leaving the structure and lock in tact and undamaged, thats lockpicking
Like Crakkerjakk said, it's not really a clear cut issue of force automatically causing damage. A slim jim might disconnect the lock in your car door if the lock is built that way, but otherwise it simply unlocks it.

A knife or credit card slipped into a latch will often simply allow the door to open, no lock picked, no damage done.

I have no lockpicking skills, but I've opened locks with picks, bypassed locks with knife blades, jimmyed them with bars and other tools, all without damage, vs the times I did damage to the locks when I cut off the shackles, or kicked doors in and watched the whole lock assembly fly across the room as the door slammed open, etc., (all in the line of duty of course.)

It's all situational, what matters is the availability of time, tools and fire support, but there is no such thing as unopenable, even if sometimes we'll go in through the walls because it's faster.
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Old 07-26-2010, 02:00 PM   #48
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Default Re: REALLY Difficult Locks

I feel like Basic is pretty clear on the difference between Forced Entry and Lockpicking. If it's subtle, it's Lockpicking. If it could benefit from a damage bonus, it's Forced Entry.

I'd call both slim-jimming and credit-carding Lockpicking. Usually, either situation offers such a high bonus that someone with a Dabbler perk or even default can do it. If you're really good at slim-jimming or credit-carding and not good at picking locks, you've bought up a Technique.
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:28 PM   #49
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Default Re: REALLY Difficult Locks

Agreed. Using a credit card is not Forced Entry. It's just a combination of a poor quality lock system (better ones have a plate to prevent just that, or a deadbolt) and someone with extra time/dabbler/high default and possibly other situational mods to make the roll fairly easily. Having tried to use a credit card like this before, I can tell you it's not an automatic success, and someone doing it for the first time will probably have to take a few tries to get it right.
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:52 PM   #50
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Default Re: REALLY Difficult Locks

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Originally Posted by MagiMaster View Post
Agreed. Using a credit card is not Forced Entry. It's just a combination of a poor quality lock system (better ones have a plate to prevent just that, or a deadbolt) and someone with extra time/dabbler/high default and possibly other situational mods to make the roll fairly easily. Having tried to use a credit card like this before, I can tell you it's not an automatic success, and someone doing it for the first time will probably have to take a few tries to get it right.
Agreed. I had practice with it at Boarding School, to get into the TV rooms. (they were locked during school hours and the housemasters did not always remember to unlock them after school).

Do it wrong you can break your card rather than free the catch.
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