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Old 06-14-2021, 10:57 AM   #11
Rupert's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: Independent Income at later TL stages

Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
Basically, II is
"I receive X money every month without doing anything.
If it come from invested money, it assumes that you cannot or will not invade your capital."
Nothing more, nothing less.
The character is in play. None of those situations apply. The player wants to have the character invest money and gain an Independent Income. How much should they have to invest per point of II?

Note that there's a concrete rule example for increasing Wealth in play. It requires you to have the money for the next level of Wealth (and any extra cash for taxes, bribes, etc.). What's more, II is a social trait (like Wealth) and thus comes under the same rule, which says: "To improve social traits, you need an in-play justification in addition to the expenditure of sufficient points."

So clearly for an in-play character II is not just something that, in general, they can plonk down the points for and walk away with. The player is fine with that. I'm fine with that. What we're not fine with is the lack of guidance as to how much II should cost in dollar terms, and that as soon as you look 'under the hood' to try and price it, you discover that the CoL vs income, etc. rules go very wrong past TL4 (at best).

Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
It involves an in game justification, but I see no reason to limit that to investments. A grateful monarch couldd grant an income. A patent or novel or song could pay a royalty. Land could produce rent. Etc.
Sure. I agree, and if I said otherwise, it was by mistake. However, in this case none of that applies. The character does have a sum of money to invest and the player wants them to have an II. It seems like a fairly simple situation, but it turns out GURPS gives no answer to what would seem to be a simple question, and the more you dig, the worse the mess.

Even so, there actually are people in the real world who make their living managing their own investments.
And there are also people who do not, but leave it to someone else. A great many people do this, in fact. Calling it a 'job' is a very bad fit for that, and an II seems to be a much better one. Also, calling it a job means the income costs no points, making it a way for PCs to invest their starting cash and make more cash for no resource expenditure at all. At least LTC III, which has a similar mechanism for merchants, requires that they spend time spelling stuff, etc. - it is a full-time job for them.
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."

Last edited by Rupert; 06-14-2021 at 11:04 AM.
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cyberpunk, independent income

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