New body armor options for soldiers

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

The best part is if we know that sapis are 3/6 pectorals,

Of course side and back plates aren't literally pectorals but would work similarly.

I'm not sure that 3/6 is right, though. I remember that it covered me from sternum to belly button, basically.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Shoulders are arms

Well, I'm talking about the entire upper edge of the torso; surely there's some term for the area above the shoulder blades, outside the neck but inside the shoulder socket.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Well, I'm talking about the entire upper edge of the torso; surely there's some term for the area above the shoulder blades, outside the neck but inside the shoulder socket.

Covered by pauldrons, so still shoulder?

[acrosome]

I also recall my IOTV plates covering down to my navel.

And, since my IOTV is sitting about 10 feet from me I just tried it and I'm right- it comes exactly down to my navel. However it only comes up to the top of my sternum, but anything higher than that is arguably my "neck" anyway. (At least, it is considered the neck anatomically/medically.)

By the way IOTV has that quick-release pull-tab too, but it is tucked under a flap on the chest that keeps it from snagging on stuff.

One of the most devastating injuries that I've treated has been gunshot wounds to the armpit that traverse the thorax- aka "transmediastinal gunshot wound." They are for all reasonable purposes not survivable. (Meaning they have been survived on rare occasions, but it is only due to ludicrous luck.)

Maybe model that as attacking chinks in armor? It's a pretty big defect under the arm, though, so I would model it as chinks without sliding rivets. If you're shooting from the side you might have to wait until the target raises his arm if he's wearing the deltoid protector, but if you're in close combat I'd say that it's a valid target for a knife thrust, or even for targeting the "arteries" like in Martial Arts- the axillary and brachial vessels are not insignificant

And, a lot of guys don't wear the deltoid protectors because they are so cumbersome. Likewise the gorget and the groin protector. OTOH the buttock protector isn't particularly uncomfortable, and makes a handy built-in pad for sitting on sharp rocks or whatnot.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by acrosome

Maybe model that as attacking chinks in armor?

Isn't that a gap? Chinks don't actually seem to be a real thing, and the gap rule apparently replaces it. Low-Tech's not terribly clear on this, for me anyway.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I'm not sure that 3/6 is right, though. I remember that it covered me from sternum to belly button, basically.

Well, if Anthony is right that the total surface area of the plates are half of the torso (including chest, abdomen, and groin but excluding shoulders), that's 50% (armor table coverage wise). However, the chest is 75% coverage. So a rough rule of thumb would be that SAPIs cover the vitals and the torso on a 1-4 on a 1d.

Now, pectorals apparently only have a chance of blocking a hit on the upper chest, so some tweaking to their percentages would be needed. But still, "front, back, and side SAPI plates cover vitals and torso on 1-4 on 1d, with attacking a gap only being -6 from the side" sounds like a good approximation. Or maybe 5/6 from the front and 3/6 from the side.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by acrosome

One of the most devastating injuries that I've treated has been gunshot wounds to the armpit that traverse the thorax- aka "transmediastinal gunshot wound." They are for all reasonable purposes not survivable. (Meaning they have been survived on rare occasions, but it is only due to ludicrous luck.)

Maybe model that as attacking chinks in armor? It's a pretty big defect under the arm, though, so I would model it as chinks without sliding rivets. If you're shooting from the side you might have to wait until the target raises his arm if he's wearing the deltoid protector, but if you're in close combat I'd say that it's a valid target for a knife thrust, or even for targeting the "arteries" like in Martial Arts- the axillary and brachial vessels are not insignificant

Low tech has specific (extremely nasty) rules for the armpit gap. Obviously, they're for TL 4- rigid armor, but it makes sense to apply it to modern armor plates as well.

Only problem is that like other such special spots, there's no way to hit it by accident.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Only problem is that like other such special spots, there's no way to hit it by accident.

1 on 1d, only on a shoulder hit. Essentially a fairly rare arm vitals hit.

[General Lee]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Well, if Anthony is right that the total surface area of the plates are half of the torso (including chest, abdomen, and groin but excluding shoulders), that's 50% (armor table coverage wise). However, the chest is 75% coverage. So a rough rule of thumb would be that SAPIs cover the vitals and the torso on a 1-4 on a 1d.

Now, pectorals apparently only have a chance of blocking a hit on the upper chest, so some tweaking to their percentages would be needed. But still, "front, back, and side SAPI plates cover vitals and torso on 1-4 on 1d, with attacking a gap only being -6 from the side" sounds like a good approximation. Or maybe 5/6 from the front and 3/6 from the side.

I think that pretty good. But Anthony answers about IOTV. I believe that OTV protect less, or make use of SAPI, when IOTV uses E-SAPI.

So, this approximation is valid for IOTV, or MTV (for USMC sake). But, I think that for OTV we should use pectorals for a hit 3/6 (or 4/6) from the front.

[General Lee]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Only problem is that like other such special spots, there's no way to hit it by accident.

AFAIK, some police officers from SWAT teams have died from shots that came under the armpit. Some might say that is because of barricated situations, when a hostile is behind a door when the team enters, but its a room clearing as any other, as people use to do in MOUT.