[HT] Small Calibre firepower

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

You only ever need one shot but it's a good idea to have the extra options:D
And the 30 round magazine in a small calibre pistol must have been JCs idea of convenience - might be a long way from perfect but a lot better than nothing.

One potential problem with weird rounds is the tendency for sensationalism. Those will be "high velocity cop-killer bullets." Not to be confused with "high caliber cop-killer bullets" and the like. Rounds like bog standard 9mm and .40 S&W are a bit harder to scandalize.

If I had a gun (aside from my old youth shotgun, and my grandad's even older .22 rifle), I believe I'd go with a GLOCK 23. However, I'm slowly becoming a bit less gun-happy, and am more likely to spend my home defense budget on things like fire extinguishers and CPR classes.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

And the 30 round magazine in a small calibre pistol must have been JCs idea of convenience - might be a long way from perfect but a lot better than nothing.

You don't appear to grasp that this is so alien compared to anything I can remember Jeff Cooper writing that I think you're confusing him with someone else.

Cooper did not believe in convenience in small caliber pistols in anything I ever read.. He believed in the .45 ACP and the Mozambique Drill.

[Sam Cade]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

And the 30 round magazine in a small calibre pistol must have been JCs idea of convenience

Cooper died in 2006. The PMR-30 didn't show up till 2011.

[Phoenix_Dragon]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

30 round magazine and badly remembered damage but ballpark 5.56mm from a pistol.

It's lighter and significantly less powerful than the 5.56x45mm. As in, about 3/4 the weight and 1/5 the muzzle energy (Varies depending on exact load, of course). It's pretty close to the PDW rounds, but it's a far cry from an actual assault-rifle round.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

the "spreadsheet" is by one of our Forum Guru's).

For this case, I think the name you want is "Douglas Cole".

[jacobmuller]

Originally Posted by Sam Cade

Cooper died in 2006. The PMR-30 didn't show up till 2011.

Yes, spoilt my year (new job, world cup, site closed for rebuild so I was a floating worker, then JC dies:().

Not saying he recommended the PMR, just the 22WMR round. You're right , though, maybe it was another author in the G&A magazine but if it had been, I wouldn't have reacted with utter amazement.
I'm kinda peeved that I can't find anything, not even my original thread/posts! I had all my G&A "Cooper's Corner" articles in a file, his quotes highlighted. Thought I had scanned them. Can't find either hardcopy or digital:(
But I did find 20+ issues of Epic Illustrated from the early '80s that I had completely forgotten about (Groo!). Silver-lining.

Douglas Cole! I hope you begin to understand how annoyed I am at not remembering names. Anyone put the numbers through DCs spreadsheet? I always mess it up.

[jacobmuller]

Found the original posts. He didn't recommend the 22WMR, just a "22 pistol" for home defence and the scout rifle for hunting. The 22WMR turned up when I asked about 22's on the forum.

[jacobmuller]

Found an article - JC doesn't recommend the 22 for home defence here so I'll keep hunting. May well be I've misremembered and connected the wrong dots:D

And then there is the matter of the shotgun. Some people really need a shotgun, both for home defense and for recreation. So I guess I would expand my minimum list to include a Steyr Scout, a Marlin 39 .22 (particularly an older model without the cross-bolt safety), a compact .22 self-loading pistol and a good-grade self-loading 12-gauge shotgun.

From "Cooper's Must Have Guns", Guns & Ammo, November 2002.

[HANS]

The .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire does Dmg 2d-1 pi- from a rifle, 1d+2 pi- from a pistol like the PMR-30. This is not a round any sane user would choose for a self-defence weapon, in my opinion.

Cheers

HANS

[jacobmuller]

Thanks - overly enthusiastic interpretation of its stats in the last thread:D
It must just have slipped into his list as a "must have" for plinking and the shotgun is for home defence.

I tried putting the numbers into DCs spreadsheet and end up with a MV below 1000fps. I'll leave it to the experts.

Any numbers for the 17?