Elephant Guns, ST and Rcl

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Sam Cade

I'd guess so.

Excellent.

Do other experts or forumites concur? Should I send off an e-mail to HANS or should I contact an errata coordinator?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

I would love to see a 2 bore if you ever wind up statting such a beasty

Of course, it depends on what you load it with. Here's a handmade modern 2-bore rifle, single-barrel, shooting cast ball of 3375 grains and loaded to a relatively low pressure for only a 1000 fps:

2-bore rifle
Dmg 8d pi++; Acc 4; Range 300/1,500; Weight 22.8/0.6; RoF 1; Shots 1(3); ST 15†; Bulk -7; Rcl 8; Cost $30,000.*

Use a proper load, 700 grains of FFg and a 3500 lead ball:

Dmg 6dx2 pi++; Range 400/2,500; Weight 22.9/0.7; ST 16†; Rcl 10.

You could also go for a double rifle, loaded with the heavier ball and charge:

2-bore double
Dmg 6dx2 pi++; Acc 4; Range 400/2,500; Weight 45.4/1.4; RoF 2; Shots 2(3i); ST 16†; Bulk -8; Rcl 9; Cost $100,000.

The maker of this gun, after experimenting, actually recommends a redesign if he is ever commissioned to build one again. He'd shorten the barrels and shave a corresponding amount of the stock, to lighten the weapon down to 32 lbs. That hasn't been built, but would come out thus:

2-bore light double
Dmg 11d+1 pi++; Acc 4; Range 400/2,500; Weight 33.4/1.4; RoF 2; Shots 2(3i); ST 16†; Bulk -7; Rcl 10; Cost $100,000.

These weapons are not worth the massive cost of weapon and ammunition, neither in real-life nor in GURPS, not with more modern chamberings available. In GURPS, there is the further problem that such heavy, slow moving balls aren't rewarded in the GURPS damage scheme, as it tops out at pi++ wounding. According to Douglas Cole's spreadsheet, these half-pounder spheres ought to have a Wound Channel Modifier of x11, not merely two.

A partial fix would be to fire huge buckshot loads from them. Load the light double with nine 315 grain Dixie Tri-Ball 'pellets' and you'd get:

Dmg 4d-1 pi++; Acc 3; Range 80/1,600; RoF 2x9; Rcl 1.

*Varies enormously, governed by the features of the gun (mostly irrelevant in GURPS terms, except as Styling). In addition, negotiation might reduce it.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Icelander

A partial fix would be to fire huge buckshot loads from them.

Guns somewhat like this have been built and used, as "punt guns", aka "the larval form of the monitor." They're intended for mounting rigidly on a punt and then sneaking up on flocks of waterfowl in the middle of overgrown marshland.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Guns somewhat like this have been built and used, as "punt guns", aka "the larval form of the monitor." They're intended for mounting rigidly on a punt and then sneaking up on flocks of waterfowl in the middle of overgrown marshland.

Yes, indeed. Those fire birdshot, however, not buckshot and certainly not 15.24mm wide spherical balls. Tri-Ball loads are truly fearsome.

Perhaps an even more attractive load for anti-personnel (or soft-skinned monsters) would be lead balls around 10mm-11mm in diameter. You ought to be able to get 27 of those in a 2-gauge shell; for ca 3d pi+ damage and RoF n x 27.

Double-ought buck would be 60-65 pellets and do around 2d pi. If you just wanted traditional buckshot velocities, you could probably stuff a hundred pellets of 00 buck in there. Perhaps not, given that stacking it might lose you a lot of space. You might have to make do with a reduced powder load and only 50 or so pellets, but that would probably also reduce MinST down to 15†, so there is that.

[Sam Cade]

*Coff coff*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Samuel_White_Baker

Among other weapons, I had an extraordinary rifle that carried a half-pound percussion shell; this instrument of torture to the hunter was not sufficiently heavy for the weight of the projectile: it only weighted twenty pounds, thus with a charge of ten drachms [270 grains] of powder and a HALF-POUND shell, the recoil was so terrific, that I spun around like a weathercock in a hurricane. I really dreaded my own rifle, although I have been accustomed to heavy charges of powder and severe recoils for some years. None of my men could fire it, and it was looked upon as a species of awe, and it was name "Jenna-El-Mootfah" (Child of a Cannon) by the Arabs, which being a far too long of a name for practice, I christened it the "Baby", and the scream of this "Baby" loaded with a half-pound shell was always fatal. It was too severe, and I seldom fired it, but it is a curious fact that I never shot a fire with that rifle without bagging. The entire practice, during several years, was confined to about twenty shots. I was afraid to use it, but now and then as it was absolutely necessary, it was cleaned after months of staying loaded. On such occasions my men had the gratification of firing it, and the explosion was always accompanied by two men falling on their backs (one having propped up the shooter) and the "Baby" flying some yards behind them. This rifle was made by Holland & Holland, of Bond Street, and I could highly recommend it for the Goliath of Gath, but not for the men of A.D. 1866.

Edit: Note that he is talking about firing an EXPLOSIVE shell from his rifle.

A very large elephant was on the left flank, and for an instant this turned obliquely to the left; I quickly seized the opportunity and fired the "Baby," with an explosive shell, aimed far back in the flank, trusting that it would penetrate beneath the opposite shoulder. The recoil of the "Baby," loaded with ten drachms of the strongest powder and a half-pound shell, spun me round like a top—it was difficult to say which was staggered the most severely, the elephant or myself; however, we both recovered, and I seized one of my double rifles, a Reilly No. 10, that was quickly pushed into my hand by my Tokroori, Hadji Ali. This was done just in time, as an elephant from the baffled herd turned sharp round, and, with its immense ears cocked, it charged down upon us with a scream of rage. "One of us she must have if I miss!"

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/796

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Sam Cade

*Coff coff*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Samuel_White_Baker


Edit: Note that he is talking about firing an EXPLOSIVE shell from his rifle.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/796

Yes, I've read that.

I note that a modern load of 300 grains FFg was barely enough to get the ball to a 1000 fps according to one owner of such a monster gun and the recoil energy of that light load was 'only' 220 ft/lb, with a recoil velocity something over 20 fps. That's not too bad, compared to some of the bigger elephant guns and it's certainly mild compared to the full-power loads for the 2-bore.

In any case, even the lightest loads are comparable in felt recoil to such monstrous rounds as .577 Tyrannosaurus, which means that only a big and strong man can contemplate firing the weapon, and only someone with an awesome tolerance for pain can practise with one regularly.

[Sam Cade]

Originally Posted by Icelander

and only someone with an awesome tolerance for pain can practise with one regularly.

Indeed. Stuff like this is getting into the HT check or suffer a disconnected retina territory.

Baker let his "Baby" get away from him once and the spur of the hammer cut his face so deeply he carried the scars for the rest of his life.



Ah..Sir Baker:

Suddenly a bright thought flashed through my mind. Without taking my eyes off the animal before me, I put a double charge of powder down the right-hand barrel, and tearing off a piece of my shirt, I took all the money from my pouch, three shillings in sixpenny pieces, and two anna pieces, which I luckily had with me in this small coin for paying coolies. Quickly making them into a rouleau with the piece of rag, I rammed them down the barrel, and they were hardly well home before the bull again sprang forward. So quick was it that I had no time to replace the ramrod, and I threw it in the water, bringing my gun on full cock in the same instant. However, he again halted, being now within about seven paces from me, and we again gazed fixedly at each other, but with altered feelings on my part. I had faced him hopelessly with an empty gun for more than a quarter of an hour, which seemed a century. I now had a charge in my gun, which I knew if reserved till he was within a foot of the muzzle would certainly floor him, and I awaited his onset with comparative carelessness, still keeping my eyes opposed to his gaze.

[Kalzazz]

It would still seem like it would have quite useful effects on Supernatural Beasties, and is primitive enough would likely impose less magic penalties?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

It would still seem like it would have quite useful effects on Supernatural Beasties, and is primitive enough would likely impose less magic penalties?

Yes, that's true. On the other hand, there is the slight disadvantage of being too much gun for anyone with less than ST 16. So, good for an enormous rugby forward, less so for anyone built like a typical special ops trooper, i.e. with a runner's build.

[Sam Cade]

There is a pic of The Baby on this page if anyone is interested.

http://www.julianmonroefisher.com/gr...es/phase02.htm