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Old 04-22-2021, 12:44 PM   #31
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
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Default Re: Is initiating HTH overpowered?

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Use the modified rules for initiating HTH, which can be done during movement phase (because the target never engaged the big figure)...
These are not "the modified rules for initiating HTH." This is the rules. Same as it was in RAW.

Last edited by Axly Suregrip; 04-22-2021 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 04-22-2021, 12:55 PM   #32
Axly Suregrip
 
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Default Re: Is initiating HTH overpowered?

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
The issue Henry and I were discussing was whether the giant can make a regular attack with a club on the same turn she knocked a human down (so the human is in one of her hexes).
Part of the confusion comes from the difference between Melee/Wizard and ITL.

- In Melee/Wizard (Wizard page 8), when a giant does the push back and the 1 hex person fails their DX roll, they fall into an adjacent hex, not under the giant.

- In ITL, the person failing the roll falls under the giant.

The Melee/Wizard rules make the push back / knock down a critical part of the giant's attack. If he gets you down, he can now get a +4 DX on his club attack; which he really needs.

In ITL, it gains him a trample opportunity. And up to the GM if this is a valid situation for a club attack to the person underfoot. To me it looks like the giant does not get a standard attack to those underfoot.
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Old 04-22-2021, 02:14 PM   #33
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Is initiating HTH overpowered?

I think it is clear that a giant can use the push-back rules during their movement phase on the same turn they attack during the action phase, and that a possible consequence of the push back is that the human will end up on the ground. However, the rules also stipulate that in this case the human is in the same hex as one of the giant's hexes, and you aren't allowed to aim an attack with a club against someone in your hex. The only caveat you might think of is that you are allowed to swat at small nuisance creatures that swarm you. That is a different rule about a different situation, but if you wanted to interpret the human under a giant's feet as a 'nuisance creature' I'd say its your prerogative to make that table ruling. But it is not at all spelled out in RAW.
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Old 04-22-2021, 02:18 PM   #34
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Default Re: Is initiating HTH overpowered?

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Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
These are not "the modified rules for initiating HTH." This is the rules. Same as it was in RAW.
I don't think this is right. We just had an extended, elaborate discussion of RAW and SJ's clarifications, at the end of which it was established that you are not supposed to be able to approach someone from the front and initiate HTH during a single movement because you will get engaged along the way, stopping you in your tracks and requiring you to take option (o) on the next turn. That is a modification of RAW because it invalidates or elaborates on some of the statements made in Legacy Edition ITL.
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Old 04-22-2021, 03:39 PM   #35
Axly Suregrip
 
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Default Re: Is initiating HTH overpowered?

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I don't think this is right. We just had an extended, elaborate discussion of RAW and SJ's clarifications, at the end of which it was established that you are not supposed to be able to approach someone from the front and initiate HTH during a single movement because you will get engaged along the way, stopping you in your tracks and requiring you to take option (o) on the next turn. That is a modification of RAW because it invalidates or elaborates on some of the statements made in Legacy Edition ITL.
I see the rules have been clear on this all along. It is a clarification but for many (most?) it is how the game has been played for 40+ years. Getting engaged when entering a frontal hex is not a modification.
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Old 04-22-2021, 03:58 PM   #36
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Default Re: Is initiating HTH overpowered?

No tackling in TFT!
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Old 04-22-2021, 05:10 PM   #37
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Default Re: Is initiating HTH overpowered?

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No tackling in TFT!
UC III throw and auto-HTH?
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Old 04-22-2021, 05:13 PM   #38
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Default Re: Is initiating HTH overpowered?

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UC III throw and auto-HTH?
Effective, but not a tackle.
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Old 04-22-2021, 06:17 PM   #39
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Is initiating HTH overpowered?

Obviously I agree because I started a thread with that as a sort of base interpretation. But several other frequent posters had other interpretations, including at least one experienced player who was absolutely convinced that RAW could only be read as saying you can run straight up to someone and jump on them, from the front, in the movement phase. So, for that person at last SJ's semi-official comments are a revision.

By the way, that is a great find reminding us that Melee treats the push back differently than ITL. I think a good ruling would be to permit either option: you can push back and stay in your hex, not trampling but potentially attacking a foe who falls, or you can push back and follow, possibly over running and trampling (but not attacking with a weapon, since they are inside your melee range)
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Old 04-23-2021, 01:13 AM   #40
Steve Plambeck
 
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Default Re: Is initiating HTH overpowered?

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Obviously I agree because I started a thread with that as a sort of base interpretation. But several other frequent posters had other interpretations, including at least one experienced player who was absolutely convinced that RAW could only be read as saying you can run straight up to someone and jump on them, from the front, in the movement phase. So, for that person at last SJ's semi-official comments are a revision.
[raises hand and waves]

Although in my defense, I can say 5 other members of my long-time group also interpreted it the way I espoused it in my earlier posts, but they are not on the forum, I'm not in touch with any of them, nor is our primary GM still alive. On their behalves though, I supplicate the Designer's forgiveness!

("Option (o) let's you initiate HTH from a front hex," mutters the old man in his straight jacket. As the guard slips a plate of gruel under the cell door she can still hear his cackles fading in the distance as she walks away: "Option (b) must work too! Option (b) must work too! Option (b)...")
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