Chaos Triads with 40-point PCs?

[zot]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

Oooo... cross-thread marketing. Thanks!
;)

You're watching the "Views" column on the forum listing, aren't you? Are we getting a little happy every time it increases? Hmm?

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by zot

You're watching the "Views" column on the forum listing, aren't you? Are we getting a little happy every time it increases? Hmm?

Yeah, views are great... comments are better.

[larsdangly]

I hadn't realized this one was aimed at being challenging to a group of 40 point characters. An odd choice. I am playing a lot of TFT using the new rules and find I really like the revised scale of XP advancement. It is a major improvement of the system. But the official adventures being put out don't respect how it works and I think that is going to create a big problem going forward. Tollenkar's Lair has quite a few NPCs who can't exist as PC's; there are even common orcs in Death Test that are unconstrained by the new experience rules, and now one of their first short adventures is aimed at being deadly to a group of PCs who are as good as you can possibly be after years of play. It feels like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. I suspect the outcome will be that play groups turn to magic items as the only way they can get by

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

I hadn't realized this one was aimed at being challenging to a group of 40 point characters. An odd choice. I am playing a lot of TFT using the new rules and find I really like the revised scale of XP advancement. It is a major improvement of the system. But the official adventures being put out don't respect how it works and I think that is going to create a big problem going forward. Tollenkar's Lair has quite a few NPCs who can't exist as PC's; there are even common orcs in Death Test that are unconstrained by the new experience rules, and now one of their first short adventures is aimed at being deadly to a group of PCs who are as good as you can possibly be after years of play. It feels like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. I suspect the outcome will be that play groups turn to magic items as the only way they can get by

TBH, I think this may speak to the lack of a clear 'challenge rating' system that has been discussed elsewhere. Tollenkar's Lair has always been a difficult adventure, but I agree that the 'level' of many of the NPCs (about a dozen with stat totals of 40 or more) seems out-of-sync with the new advancement rules.

The NPCs and other opponents in Chaos Triads appear to be more reasonably balanced, however.

[warhorse11h]

Originally Posted by Skarg

Sort of true, and very much an issue, I would say.

I don't think there is such a thing as a standard loot share expectation for a "starting adventure".

Stone Flesh is just a very good item, can be a game-breaker when stacked with other armor effects, and a real bargain at $4K.

In my opinion,

* All magic item costs should be starting points - they tend to be the cost it would take to make an item, without much profit margin for the maker, who is a powerful wizard who would probably rather be doing other things than powering up a munchkin. So there are probably not many magic items being made for simple sale, and those (especially the good combat-oriented ones) that do get put up for sale probably see a lot of demand from rich and powerful and competitive/dangerous people. So in my campaign, good luck finding a Stone Flesh item for sale, and not much chance it'll go for only $4000.

Enchanting armor - a starting character still faces the DX problem with armor, so maybe they're enchanting cloth or leather, but those will lose their enchantment much more quickly through damage than chain or plate, so the investment is temporary and starts to look expensive, especially since its availability and market value are also probably higher than listed.

Stone Flesh on a Gargoyle might reasonably be deemed to have no added effect due to redundancy?

I agree with you that self powered magical protection, ie stone flesh rings, etc. combined with good armor could rapidly destabilize a campaign. I don't have a great fix for it, but perhaps a band aid. A house rule that self powered devices can only operate for a short period of time and then require a long recharge time. Using the rule of 5, let them operate for a total of 5 melees and when they are drained they have to recharge for 24 hours. You still can be an M1 tank, but after 5 melees, you lose a bunch of your protection and don't get it back very fast.

[Skarg]

Yep. From experience with our own house rule solutions, I think that would tend to work (and add tactics for managing cooldown times).

Another potential simple house rule solution can also be to have minimum maintenance costs for the items that tend to be an issue, like Stone/Iron Flesh.

As I've mentioned in past threads, our fix was to invent a Magic Item Breakdown house rule, where every item has a breakdown number you roll against when you use and maintain it, which for a good new item mostly won't happen and will have only minor effects, but for an enchantment like Stone Flesh, each turn you use it makes a breakdown shifts the table results 1 point, and results tend to lower the breakdown threshold number, sometimes permanently. So magic item stability becomes a resource and people don't just use as many items as they can all day long.

We liked it because we had gotten tired to too many magic items, and were more interested in character abilities than magic item abilities, but it is of course a big shift to the game.

[zot]

OK, Lightning is becoming a LOT more interesting to me, all of a sudden...

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by zot

OK, Lightning is becoming a LOT more interesting to me, all of a sudden...

• Reverse Missiles isn't innately self-powered.
• Reverse Missiles with self-powered is $50k
• Three dice of resist lightning is, and only costs $15k
• Where's my lightning sword? (As a melee attack reverse missiles doesn't stop it.)

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by zot

OK, Lightning is becoming a LOT more interesting to me, all of a sudden...

Yes, I was very happy when I saw the tweaks to the rules for destroying magic items with lightning in new ITL.