Engaging a larger RPG community

[RobW]

I just received the survey for original TFT backers. I can't access it to quote, but basically, SJG wants to look at what directions future materials for TFT should (or should not) take. During this breather, I wanted to re-raise "opening up".

Since funding TFT Legacy, I've gotten back into RPGs. For an old-timer like me, the RPG space is now amazing, filled with new ideas and 100s-1000s of new releases. Look at drivethrurpg, look at reddit, filled with activity, bustle, and commentary. But SJG in general and TFT in particular seem to be positioned outside this space, for some reason.

It reminds me that years ago on these forums there was an announcement of a limited publication license for TFT materials. That evidently died. I know these licenses aren't magic, but they can create interest and excitement in a larger player base.

For example, look at the Cepheus engine. This is an open license based on Traveller. From this engine came many projects, including the Hostile and Mothership systems. Mothership just had a big and highly successful kickstarter. A virtuous circle and excitement for everyone.

I mean, why do I see more discussion and interest in 1-page open source systems (e.g Risus) than something as innovative as TFT? How often have I seen on r/rpg a request for a DND alternative with a fast tactical combat system? Lots, but I don't think I've ever seen TFT mentioned, other than myself. Instead, it's Savage Worlds, or some powered-by-the-apocalypse game, or Worlds Without Number etc.

It's a mystery -- a forum with ~1.5 million RPG players, but almost no mention of TFT.

I admit I'm no longer active on this forum or playing TFT (it doesn't happen to be what my group wants to do), but I have a real soft spot for TFT and would love to see it more widely discussed and appreciated if possible :)

[Terquem]

I to took the survey.
My interpretation of the nature of the questions and my responses to them are that as a customer there isn't anything Steve Jackson Games needs to do differently to get my money (nostalgia centered consumer) but if they are trying to expand sales ot will be through other customers

[tomc]

My impression is that the limited publication licensing didn't work out because SJG sets a pretty high standard for quality, and doesn't have the resources to ensure the licensed material is up to their standard.

Rather than aggressively expanding the market for TFT, they're going the "boutique" route, and serving the base they already have. I expect that kickstarter/indiegogo preorders help them do that in a profitable way.

They're making money, and we're getting stuff we want. Could be worse...

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by RobW

Look at drivethrurpg, look at reddit, filled with activity, bustle, and commentary. But SJG in general and TFT in particular seem to be positioned outside this space, for some reason.

There is a myriad of RPGs out there, each with its loyal fans. TFT's community of players is unlikely to expand much all by itself without its fans talking about it in forums that aren't dedicated to TFT and running games for people who don't already play.

[Terquem]

For me the hardest question to pose, and answer respectably is

Why play TFT

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Terquem

For me the hardest question to pose, and answer respectably is

Why play TFT

I can answer this based upon the reason that I played it 40 years ago. At this time, I think that it still applies. I say this even though I'm still unsure about and getting used to some of the changes that were made in the new version of TFT.

TFT is an RPG system with great combat resolution, character generation/development with more available non-human race PCs. It also has an open form to accommodate a variety of character types and experience levels, and allows for innovation across most aspects of the game.

The reason that TFT has always been treated as an illegitimate step-child among RPG games is that it was originally slammed hard by D&D loyalists that were threatened by the fact that TFT was actually more fun to play. Their biggest lie was that TFT is just a basic hack and maul game with no substance. They really hated that giants, centaurs, reptile men, and other non-human races were easily generated and developed as PCs. Since then TFT went out of production for ~35 years and was forgotten about while the RPG universe expanded. Only die-hards like myself and others kept the game alive well into the 1990's. Because of its open form, many were able to keep expanding it to accommodate beginning and very mature characters.

In order for it to make a strong comeback, new blood is required. I've seen some of that with experienced RPG players picking up and playing TFT after it was re-released. I plan to start a local group and have a handful of RPG players interested in it already even though they never heard of TFT before. If they are any where near as impressed as I was by the game, they will be hooked.

[Cmdr_Bonehead]

There were some questions in the survey that were about things that I was not really interested in, but that I think would be really helpful to grow the audience for TFT. I'm not interested in the Melee/Wizard starter sets (I already have that stuff), but I think it would be a great way to introduce new players to the game. Similarly, i'm not very interested in VTT's, but, since the rest of the gaming world is moving in that direction, NOT having support for Roll20, or the Foundry (etc), is a serious impediment to getting new (younger) players to pick up the game.

SJ Games needs to cater to us committed players in order to still make money, but in doing so, they might miss a bunch of opportunities to grow the fan base.

[DeadParrot]

On "Why TFT?", one of the selling points for a friend was the smaller rule set. Most of the larger selling RPG systems suffer from 'splat book' expansion. It can be a pain to have to refer to 5 to 20+ books to find everything. He really liked that all of the TFT rules were in one book. The question of 'where is that?' is much simpler when the only information needed is a page number or two.

As for the claim that TFT is just 'hack and slash', to this day most of the wider selling systems base XP gain primarily on killing things. The CP reward system for TFT is more on 'How much did the characters get done?' instead of just 'How many skeletons got killed?'

We didn't have much trouble running a TFT game on Roll20 as the Covid thing shut down our in person games. At the time, hex support was lacking but TFT adapts pretty well to a square grid and mega-squares aren't that hard to work out. It helped that I had backed some Loke Battle Mats kickstarters and got the rewards that included VTT files for the physical books. Those VTT maps were usable for our TFT games on Roll20.

[RobW]

By remarkable coincidence, Melee is today's game of the day on drivethrurpg.com

One can't leave a review until 24 hours after downloading (for free) from their site, and by then it will no longer be game of the day. But a late 5* review is one small way to support SJG reaching out...

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by DeadParrot

On "Why TFT?", one of the selling points for a friend was the smaller rule set. Most of the larger selling RPG systems suffer from 'splat book' expansion. It can be a pain to have to refer to 5 to 20+ books to find everything. He really liked that all of the TFT rules were in one book. The question of 'where is that?' is much simpler when the only information needed is a page number or two.

As for the claim that TFT is just 'hack and slash', to this day most of the wider selling systems base XP gain primarily on killing things. The CP reward system for TFT is more on 'How much did the characters get done?' instead of just 'How many skeletons got killed?'

We didn't have much trouble running a TFT game on Roll20 as the Covid thing shut down our in person games. At the time, hex support was lacking but TFT adapts pretty well to a square grid and mega-squares aren't that hard to work out. It helped that I had backed some Loke Battle Mats kickstarters and got the rewards that included VTT files for the physical books. Those VTT maps were usable for our TFT games on Roll20.

The original TFT rule system was a collection of three books: Advanced Melee, Advanced Wizard, and In the Labrynth. Even then it wasn't hard to check or look things up when needed. The new ITL combined all three into one book which I do appreciate even though I am not comfortable with some of the changes that were made from the original. If TFT hadn't gone out of publication in the early 80's, I highly suspect that a combined version would have been issued.

When I mentioned the D&D loyalist misconceptions/lies about TFT that were being spread, I was referring to the situation that existed in the early 80's. What I stated was very real. Now days, that's not really the case because TFT slipped away for over 30 years. Out of sight and out of mind except for those of us that truly appreciated the game and kept it alive as long as we and our lifestyles would allow. Now that I'm old and have met the most time consuming aspects of familial obligations, I now have time for it again and am interested in spreading the enthusiasm to a younger set of RPG players. Even with some of the the changes from the original, TFT has preserved it's core appeal to me.

I have only been a recent participant in Roll20 TFT games. I'm so old school, I don't think I would be effective as a GM on that platform. It is great but seems limited to the number of characters/participants. My style had developed into larger scale battles that may be hard to manage on such a platform as opposed to in person. Having said that, I do appreciate the work and thoughtfulness required of a GM to make it work. Kudos to phiwum. I may come around to it myself some day but I suspect any game of mine on Roll20 would be a disaster and not a good experience for the players.