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Old 05-26-2018, 06:03 AM   #1
SilvercatMoonpaw
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Default Clarification: Talent Skill Choice

Something I'm not quite sure on:

When a skill that requires specialization (such as Artist or Engineer) is part of a Talent does that mean the Talent adds to the entire skill?

When making custom Talents does the entire skill count as only one choice for determining how many points per level the Talent costs?

I assume the justification for a "Yes" answer is that Talents aren't supposed to go very high.
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:18 AM   #2
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Default Re: Clarification: Talent Skill Choice

I believe that the answer to both these questions is 'yes'. As for why, one reason is that if you count a skill like these as more than one, any talent that contains them will be large and cost 15 points. When IQ and DX cost 20/level each, a 15-point talent is unlikely to be considered worth buying when it only covers one skill, even if it's really a whole bunch like Engineering is.
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:33 AM   #3
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Default Re: Clarification: Talent Skill Choice

Power-Ups 3 goes into some detail on this on page 5. A basic summary is 'yes, unless specified' and 'yes' to your questions. I believe the justification is actually that it keeps talents competitive with attributes (since a talent usually covers skills based on several attributes but specialties of one skill almost always use a single attribute) and because most specialties have generous defaults between them so raising one is almost as good as raising them all anyway.
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:33 AM   #4
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Default Re: Clarification: Talent Skill Choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
When a skill that requires specialization (such as Artist or Engineer) is part of a Talent does that mean the Talent adds to the entire skill?
It depends on the talent and the skill. Most of the time the Talent will add to all specializations of the skill, but some talents may affect only certain specialties. It depends on how broad or narrowly the talent is defined. This is likely to be particularly true if a talent includes weapon skills - a talent that includes Knife and Knife Throwing might include Fast-Draw (Knife) but not other Fast-Draw specialties (I know there's a general prohibition on including weapon skills; but there's also a couple official talents that break that prohibition). Another likely candidate might be a talent for a miracle working ship's engineer which applies to Mechanic and Engineering, and includes Mathematics (Applied) because it is necessary for Engineering but doesn't include other Mathematics specialties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
When making custom Talents does the entire skill count as only one choice for determining how many points per level the Talent costs?
Yes, all specialties would count as one skill if a talent covers more than one.
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Old 05-26-2018, 07:52 AM   #5
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Default Re: Clarification: Talent Skill Choice

Alright, good to know
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
(I know there's a general prohibition on including weapon skills; but there's also a couple official talents that break that prohibition).
Sometimes you just have to. Like I made a Spider Talent and included Net because of course.
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Old 05-26-2018, 10:38 AM   #6
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Default Re: Clarification: Talent Skill Choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
I know there's a general prohibition on including weapon skills; but there's also a couple official talents that break that prohibition.
I just wanted to point out, there's actually no prohibition on including weapon skills (or combat skills in general) in Talents. The only thing the Basic Set mentions about that is that you shouldn't be able to take "Weapon Talent", i.e. a Talent that covers all weapons, but that's in the context of explaining that Talents should represent believable aptitudes. There's really no balance concerns with adding combat skills to Talents in general. Power-Ups: Talents certainly doesn't mention anything like that, and includes several Talents with combat skills, and doesn't make any kind of note about them being exceptions or anything, either.

This is a persistent myth about Talents, and I think we should try to stop repeating it.
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Old 05-26-2018, 03:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: Clarification: Talent Skill Choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
This is a persistent myth about Talents, and I think we should try to stop repeating it.
Ah, then it's a good thing I was asking this question.
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Old 05-27-2018, 11:38 AM   #8
Kromm
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Default Re: Clarification: Talent Skill Choice

On the matter of combat skills, see Combat Talents (GURPS Power-Ups 3: Talents, p. 23).
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:28 AM   #9
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Default Re: Clarification: Talent Skill Choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
I just wanted to point out, there's actually no prohibition on including weapon skills (or combat skills in general) in Talents. The only thing the Basic Set mentions about that is that you shouldn't be able to take "Weapon Talent", i.e. a Talent that covers all weapons, but that's in the context of explaining that Talents should represent believable aptitudes.
I'm not even convinced "all weapons" isn't as believable an aptitude as many of the other Talents. If you want it, I'm entirely willing to house rule it as a 20 point Talent. Losing the bonus to everything else DX does for you is more than enough to compensate for adding to the relatively rare IQ based weapon skill rolls. Hey, I'll even throw in Connoisseur (weapons) and Expert Skill (Hoplology). "I'm good with all weapons" is after all a reasonable enough archetype to support the existence of Weapon Master (all), there's no reason it can't have a Talent too.
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:50 AM   #10
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Default Re: Clarification: Talent Skill Choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
I'm not even convinced "all weapons" isn't as believable an aptitude as many of the other Talents. If you want it, I'm entirely willing to house rule it as a 20 point Talent.
I wouldn't even price it that high, personally. I think it's balanced fine as a 15-point Talent. I could see something like that being the gift of a war god to their clerics in a fantasy setting, for instance.
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