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Old 04-20-2021, 06:51 PM   #11
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Glamor

There's a certain simplicity to that. So, the clothing still appears the same, but is adjusted to fit the new appearance?

I don't know, that does simplify matters and allows for Disguise to really be different than Glamor by itself. It would lead to oddities sometimes. If you changed into a large wolf, you would be a large, clothed wolf unless you went nekkid. If you were holding a sword, it would appear as if there was a sword attached to one of the paws. (I'm assuming you don't have to crawl to be in wolf form, but maybe I'm wrong.)

That's Henry's solution too, I think. It's simple in application and the principle is fairly clear. The body changes appearance and clothing changes only enough to fit the illusory body.

Far as I can tell, the only restriction on Glamor is in terms of size (and that is asymmetrically about growth, not shrinkage). I wonder if you could turn into a mustard jelly in appearance (clothed, per your rules) or a table (with a leather tablecloth perhaps) or should the spell be restricted to humanoid or maybe quadrapedal forms?

Thanks, Kiediccus. Getting other opinions does help me figger out how I want to play it. I have a certain NPC wizard with Glamor who likes to go incognito and I need to know how much effort it takes him to change into another form. Questions about the mustard jelly and table are just musings. I don't have a use in mind for those, but they're not hard to imagine.


ETA: Maybe Glamor is to Shapeshifting as Illusion or Image is to Summoning. Glamor is just an illusory shapeshift. If so, the following text is suggestive.

Quote:
Furthermore, your clothes will not shift or vanish – you’ll need new ones.
This is, of course, more restrictive than Kiediccus's suggestion.

Shapeshifting says limitations on forms is up to the GM, which presumably applies to Glamor, too. No mustard jellies in my game. I think quadrapeds would be okay.

Last edited by phiwum; 04-20-2021 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 04-20-2021, 08:07 PM   #12
Kieddicus
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default Re: Glamor

I've never actually thought about Glamor being used to turn into anything other than a relatively anatomically similar creature. I'll have to put a little more thought into the spell.

As amusing as turning yourself or another into a mustard jelly would be I think restricting the change to no less than half the size is a fair view of the spell.
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Old 04-20-2021, 08:16 PM   #13
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Glamor

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Originally Posted by Kieddicus View Post
I've never actually thought about Glamor being used to turn into anything other than a relatively anatomically similar creature. I'll have to put a little more thought into the spell.

As amusing as turning yourself or another into a mustard jelly would be I think restricting the change to no less than half the size is a fair view of the spell.
Oh, yeah, I didn't mean to make my choices too small. I agree with the half-size restriction. So, a really big mustard jelly, then.

But I am leaning to your initial restriction on relative anatomical similarity. I'm just not sure if an appropriate sized quadruped like a good-sized wolf is similar enough. It's explicitly similar enough for shapeshift, since it's mentioned in the spell description.

I might be tempted to let a character shapeshift into a jelly. I'm not sure what I'd do if they wanted to split the jelly in two. That seems a step too far.

(For anyone wondering, Mustard Jellies are in Old School Monsters and happen to be my oddball monster du jour.)
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Old 04-20-2021, 08:58 PM   #14
Kieddicus
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default Re: Glamor

Oh no I found the mustard jelly comment to be hilarious and an appropriate thing to point out.

I correlate Glamor more with a disguise than too shapeshifting, so I don't usually compare the capabilities of the two spells. I think I would allow a Glamor to make you look like a bear but not a wolf. Thinking about it a little more I might use a bear as a metric for as far as the Glamor spell can go.

As far as Shapeshift goes I allow you to change any animal/person into any other animal/person. Though more extreme uses might cost more or be harder to cast.
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Old 04-20-2021, 09:00 PM   #15
Shostak
 
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Location: New England
Default Re: Glamor

Quote:
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I think you're mistaken, Shostak. On ITL 44, it says If a wizard casts a Glamor or shape-shift to perfect your
physical appearance, you roll one fewer dice.
Thanks for pointing that out. It looks like I need to download an updated ITL PDF, since the one I'm using says "If a wizard casts an illusion or shape-shift to perfect your
physical appearance, you roll one fewer dice."

My apologies, Master Cobb!
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Old 04-20-2021, 09:04 PM   #16
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Glamor

I'd be interested to know, Shostak, if the updated text changes your answer about how Glamor works.
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Old 04-20-2021, 09:24 PM   #17
TippetsTX
 
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Location: North Texas
Default Re: Glamor

GLAMOR is a powerful and expensive illusion spell that cannot be disbelieved. Think of it as a magical shell that the wizard wears. They can therefore look (and only look) however they want to look... clothes, equipment, physique, etc. IMO the only limitation as far as the spell's 'projected' appearance should be size (1-hex can only appear as another 1-hex figure) possibly shape, but even that is really up to the GM.

With regard to synergy with talents, since the illusion cannot be disbelieved, I'm not convinced that DISGUISE would grant any benefit whatsoever (what would be the point?), but MIMIC could be extremely beneficial if the wizard is trying to portray a specific figure. "You look like the general, but sir... when did your voice change two octaves?"
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Last edited by TippetsTX; 04-20-2021 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 04-20-2021, 09:47 PM   #18
Kieddicus
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default Re: Glamor

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Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
but even that is really up to the GM.
To be fair everything is up to the GM...

I actually allow Glamor change a figures voice and even scent. [Especially useful when trying to sneak a zombie through town.]
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Old 04-21-2021, 02:32 AM   #19
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Glamor

Glamour is a “magical disguise.”

To that end I allow it to change clothing and items to fit with the required disguise. If it doesn’t change clothing and items I don’t see the point of it.
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Old 04-21-2021, 03:47 AM   #20
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Glamor

Is Disguise a makeup talent or an acting talent?
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