Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-20-2021, 05:53 AM   #1
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Glamor

The Glamor spell as written is a little vague on some details, so I thought I'd ask here.

Suppose a wizard wants to look like a strong, battleaxe-wielding barbarian. Now, I assume that the wizard's clothing will change to the required leather loincloth or whatnot, but what about other accoutrements? Does his staff look like a battleaxe? Or does he have to find a battleaxe and ditch the staff to complete the ensemble?


Can Glamor make him look like he's carrying any item he wants, even though he's empty-handed?

It's a thrown spell which can only be ended with Remove Thrown Spell or when the wizard wills it away, so you can cast it on allies. More interestingly, you can cast it on anybody. Your blind date turned out to be a terrible, self-centered boor? Let him live the next few weeks (or longer) as an old spinster and see how he likes it. The really attractive prostitutes are too expensive? A glamor spell and a cheap hooker will do the trick, though you'll want to consider the effects of the 10 fatigue cost. And so on.

I tend to think that the clothing should change, because otherwise the spell is too limited. This would apply to armor too. I'm leaning to saying that things carried in hand appear as they really are. I have no principled reasons for these choices. It just feels right.
phiwum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 10:52 AM   #2
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Glamor

I noticed that Helborn wrote a post of houserules which said that glamor applied to clothing and gear.

I might accept that gear in hand or worn at the time of casting could be all glamored up, but I'm a wee concerned about the battleaxe-wielding thug who appears to be holding a parasol. He could be a real problem (and I don't relish explaining the massive slice for 13 points of damage that the parasol just delivered). The wimpy dagger-wielding goblin who looks like a battleaxe user is less of an issue.
phiwum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 11:00 AM   #3
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Glamor

Extending Glamor to clothing would negate the use of the disguise talent which is supposed to be used with the spell as per ITL 44.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 12:37 PM   #4
Shostak
 
Shostak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Glamor

I'd say Glamor extends to clothing and worn items.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Extending Glamor to clothing would negate the use of the disguise talent which is supposed to be used with the spell as per ITL 44.
Glamor is not specifically mentioned under Disguise, but it is pretty clear from the spell's description that it is far more effective than the skill--certainly more so than the -1d benefit illusory additions to disguise confer.
Shostak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 02:09 PM   #5
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Glamor

Yes, there seems to be an oddity in the text of Glamor and Disguise. Glamor by itself gives no die roll to penetrate, other than for those with Mage Sight. Disguise with Glamor gets a die roll, which makes it strictly worse than Glamor.

But I don't think Glamor allows you to impersonate a specific person. It allows you to change your appearance, but not to appear as a particular person. You couldn't be the Duke and maybe you couldn't be a non-specific member of the Duke's guards (though I'm not sure about that).

Anyway, if I'm right on that, it would explain how Disguise is less effective than Disguise + Glamor and Disguise + Glamor is not really less effective than Glamor, since Glamor doesn't play the same role.
phiwum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 04:53 PM   #6
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Glamor

Quote:
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
You couldn't be the Duke
Read Tollenkars Lair please
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 02:10 PM   #7
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Glamor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
I'd say Glamor extends to clothing and worn items.
Glamor is not specifically mentioned under Disguise, but it is pretty clear from the spell's description that it is far more effective than the skill--certainly more so than the -1d benefit illusory additions to disguise confer.
I think you're mistaken, Shostak. On ITL 44, it says
Quote:
If a wizard casts a Glamor or shape-shift to perfect your
physical appearance, you roll one fewer dice.
phiwum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 09:00 PM   #8
Shostak
 
Shostak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Glamor

Quote:
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I think you're mistaken, Shostak. On ITL 44, it says If a wizard casts a Glamor or shape-shift to perfect your
physical appearance, you roll one fewer dice.
Thanks for pointing that out. It looks like I need to download an updated ITL PDF, since the one I'm using says "If a wizard casts an illusion or shape-shift to perfect your
physical appearance, you roll one fewer dice."

My apologies, Master Cobb!
Shostak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 06:30 PM   #9
Kieddicus
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default Re: Glamor

I don't let Glamour change any items or cloths. Though it will slightly alter them to avoid any clipping with the Glamour spell.
Kieddicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 06:51 PM   #10
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Glamor

There's a certain simplicity to that. So, the clothing still appears the same, but is adjusted to fit the new appearance?

I don't know, that does simplify matters and allows for Disguise to really be different than Glamor by itself. It would lead to oddities sometimes. If you changed into a large wolf, you would be a large, clothed wolf unless you went nekkid. If you were holding a sword, it would appear as if there was a sword attached to one of the paws. (I'm assuming you don't have to crawl to be in wolf form, but maybe I'm wrong.)

That's Henry's solution too, I think. It's simple in application and the principle is fairly clear. The body changes appearance and clothing changes only enough to fit the illusory body.

Far as I can tell, the only restriction on Glamor is in terms of size (and that is asymmetrically about growth, not shrinkage). I wonder if you could turn into a mustard jelly in appearance (clothed, per your rules) or a table (with a leather tablecloth perhaps) or should the spell be restricted to humanoid or maybe quadrapedal forms?

Thanks, Kiediccus. Getting other opinions does help me figger out how I want to play it. I have a certain NPC wizard with Glamor who likes to go incognito and I need to know how much effort it takes him to change into another form. Questions about the mustard jelly and table are just musings. I don't have a use in mind for those, but they're not hard to imagine.


ETA: Maybe Glamor is to Shapeshifting as Illusion or Image is to Summoning. Glamor is just an illusory shapeshift. If so, the following text is suggestive.

Quote:
Furthermore, your clothes will not shift or vanish – you’ll need new ones.
This is, of course, more restrictive than Kiediccus's suggestion.

Shapeshifting says limitations on forms is up to the GM, which presumably applies to Glamor, too. No mustard jellies in my game. I think quadrapeds would be okay.

Last edited by phiwum; 04-20-2021 at 06:59 PM.
phiwum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.