hand foot major wound knockdown stunning

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

You might scale it, though: A failure by 0 means you are stunned but stay standing, a failure by 1 means you drop to your knees, 2-3 you drop to crawling or sitting, and 4+ you fall all the way to lying down, either face-up or down.

I really like that, and will be borrowing it for use in my games!

[LemmingLord]

This is another GURPS special thing you don't see in other systems. On the oen hand, yes, sure, many people thwacked in the hand are going to recoil in pain... but they are more likely to be stunned (one second), whimper (one second), look in shock (two seconds), realize how much pain they are in (another second) and then slump to the floor....

Of course in a system where every second of every combat has every person doing as much as humanly possible in one second this seems like a very rude thing to do someone's character, so instead they just have you get stunned and go prone... rather than do nothing for four seconds and THEN be knocked to the ground.

While there are many documented cases of soldiers being shot and NOT being put down, there are also plenty of people getting shot and freaking out doing nothing useful or worse, going into shock!!

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

I really like that, and will be borrowing it for use in my games!

Glad you like it. You'll be seeing that progression again. 0:-)

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by LemmingLord

While there are many documented cases of soldiers being shot and NOT being put down, there are also plenty of people getting shot and freaking out doing nothing useful or worse, going into shock!!

Which is of course why we get a HT check to avoid it :D

I've cracked a finger in a door, but never a full cripple to an upper extremity. I did break my ankle (crippled foot if there ever was one) and due to a life-long joint problem I've massively sprained my ankles more times than I can count. The kind of sprain where one of those fussy little bones pops out of place, ligaments/tendons get mangled, and you end up on crutches for six weeks - which I'd say is a legit Lasting crippling injury (But obvs. not permanent). That kind of massive sprain hurts more than a break, so I'd say it still very qualifies for Knockdown/Stunning even if it isn't technically GURPS Crippled From HP Damage.

The best I can usually do after my ankle "goes" is "stand" on all fours, frozen up while I reorient. Well, all "threes" as my wounded leg is held off the ground - that's falling over because my foot doesn't work (mechanical failure). More often than not I'll end up curled up cradling my wounded leg - I'd say that was actual Knockdown - I fell over because my leg retracted whether that was a stupid idea or not.

If you're able to, you'll totally fall over in a way that protects the injured bit, you'll sometimes even sacrifice other parts of your body when you hit the ground, and then after that you can get around to the important business of making pained noises. But you're still in a good shot to fall over one way or the other.

[Seneschal]

I'd say that, despite it making sense, it's a pretty realistic rule. If you're leading a kind of campaign where people get shot in the shoulder and only recoil slightly, then 10 minutes later they're throwing punches with that hand, I'd ignore it.

But yeah, it's realistic, people regularly faint (i.e. fail their HT roll by 5 if I remember correctly) when they break bones in the hand. Regular people, that is, perhaps those with High Pain Threshold or Combat Reflexes should get bonuses or be exempt.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Seneschal

Regular people, that is, perhaps those with High Pain Threshold or Combat Reflexes should get bonuses or be exempt.

People with High Pain Threshold do get bonuses. It's pretty hard to fail a roll against HT+3 by 5 or more unless you're strangely unfit for a combatant.

Combat Reflexes is all mental. It can't protect you from physical stun.

[Azinctus]

It all depends on the health roll. A crippled hand could be the gambler getting his hand crushed by a mafia enforcer's hammer or Luke moping around with his stump under his good arm. Either might have dropped to the ground and wept. Or it could be the WW1 pilot throwing his severed leg out the plane and flying on to bag a few kills before safely landing.

If the Red Shirt fails his throw he's on the ground crying, if he passes he grits his teeth "Its ok Sir, I can keep going."

[jacobmuller]

Mangled hand = collapse in pain? I can believe it. But I think the rules allow for GM interpolation too despite the strict wording of B420 (B423?) - it just makes the game easier to run.

I can't find anything on-line so it's probably just UF about the cop who died of shock after shooting himself in the foot.
I know in RL you can die if you are unconscious. If you're unconscious and bleeding this can mean death in GURPS - 15 minutes can easily be 15HP blood loss.

[Kromm]

Knockdown is the "I must sit down or I'll fall down" reaction, compressed into a second for convenience on a combat timescale. It might be due to severe pain*, sudden blood loss, the reflex to hunch over and cradle the broken body part, or being jostled by the combat around you while you're distracted by a weapon or a bone poking out of you. For game purposes, the distinction isn't relevant. However, it has nothing to do with momentum (that's knockback) and isn't the same thing as your body physically being unable to support your weight (which is why a crippled leg sends you to the ground regardless).

* Any seriously painful wound can cause momentary unconsciousness that, in GURPS terms, would be stun and knockdown. When I took a first aid course years ago, we were taught that one of the common symptoms of a break or even a severe sprain – anywhere in the body – was "unconsciousness." Agony very definitely can cause you to drop like a ragdoll, and anything that denies you all use of a body part is likely to cause agony. That's why High Pain Threshold gives +3 to this roll.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Crippling is a bit more than a minor sprain or even break. It's a "you injured it to the point of not functioning" problem.

minor sprains and break are GURPS Crippled injury.. minor sprain might not be lasting or permitted crippling injury, but they are crippled in that you temporarily can't use them, the not literally non functionary just effectively non function due to any antem to use them send back then 'are you crazy' pain signals