Whats a Munchkin?

[Tom Kalbfus]

Originally Posted by Milkywaiter

Munchkin is the player which, knowing the campaign takes place in 18th century victorian London, wants to play a ninja.

There is something wrong if the campaign takes place in 18th century Victorian London, no such setting ever existed as the 18th century lasted from 1701 to 1800 AD. I dare say if Queen Victoria sat on the Throne instead of King George III, the American Revolution might not have taken place. That said, in a setting as wrong as 18th century Victorian London a Ninja would not be too far out of place. :)

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Tom Kalbfus

You have to understand that out of character knowledge also constrains your characters actions if you try a deliberately non-munchkin style of play. How do you know whether your character is acting on information he wouldn't have known but whose player knows or whether that character would have figured it out independently? If you already know that some other members of the party who are in a different section of the dungeon are in dire peril, but your character would not, do you go and try to rescue them?

*grin*
It's called roleplaying, not metagaming.

What your describing is usually the difference between a roleplayer and a metagamer, the roleplayer just plays his characters regardless of OOC knowledge, the metagamer uses his OOC knowledge to influence his characters' actions, depending on how far the metagamers go, they become full blown munchkins.

Metagamers are a pain and a drag on the roleplayers, but some eventually learn to roleplay, and you often only have to kick them out of your gaming groups if they're being metagaming munchkins, and/or the roleplayers get sick and tired of whopping them for their metagaming tendencies.

[Milkywaiter]

Originally Posted by Tom Kalbfus

There is something wrong if the campaign takes place in 18th century Victorian London, no such setting ever existed as the 18th century lasted from 1701 to 1800 AD.

You should see what I had written before I edited it. Anyway, point taken. I was speaking out of my... er the top of my head ;-)

[Tom Kalbfus]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

I think you're missing the point here. What makes this definition and the nigh-identical one up-thread (mentioning Renaissance Florence rather than Victorian London) work is that the specifics of the setting kinda don't matter, nor specifically that it's a ninja. A munchin is the sort of person who would want to play a kewl, often ethnically badass, killer no matter what the setting is. He'd want to play a ninja in a Sherlock Holmes-themed campaign, in a political Renaissance campaign, in a mercantile campaign along the Silk Road, in the Uplift universe, or in a Jane Austen novel. Or he might want to play an Ultimate Fighting champion in all of them, or a shotgun-weilding renegade biker in all of them. The point is that he wants to wear a particular kind of badass outfit and kill lots of people with ease with a particular weapon or fighting style, no matter how absurd or impossible they might be in any given campaign, and can't and doesn't think beyond that.

Someone who plays Sherlock Holmes in Victorian 18th Century London would be just as out of place as the guy who plays the Ninja, maybe even more so, because from the point of view of the 18th century Londoners with there tricorn hats and their powdered wigs, Sherlock Holmes cap and cloak and pipe will appear quite outlandish, the Ninja, they'll understand as he comes from the foreign culture, but Sherlock? Where did he get those futuristic duds anyway?

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Der Wanderer

And I say a clever GM might fit him in in any setting...

I don't disagree, but you're very clearly missing the point again. This is not about a GM being clever with unusual material. This is not about a player looking for an unusual challenge. This is about a type of player who lacks imagination and cannot think beyond his own unvarying ambitions and goals, which are exclusively concerned with gathering fighting power and killing things (basically treating a roleplaying game like a videogame: a simulation of killing things with cool power-ups) in ways which have little or no necessary relationship to the setting or mood of the campaign. I'll say that again, bolding important elements:

A type of player who lacks imagination and cannot think beyond his own unvarying ambitions and goals, which are exclusively concerned with gathering fighting power and killing things (basically treating a roleplaying game like a videogame: a simulation of killing things with cool power-ups) in ways which have little or no necessary relationship to the setting or mood of the campaign.

There. That's a munchkin. And that's so much less elegant than the "Florentine ninja" thing. See what happens when you overanalyze?

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Der Wanderer

Of course what you suggest would make most comic heroes Munchkins... A super rich guy running around in a Bat costume at night... please...

nah there from a setting the allows for Gadgeteer with supertech, and time traveler.

much hard to sport a munchkin by character concept. but here's a RL example so during a GURPS Supers game I ran.

a robot the buy a nuclear self destruct with with amnesia, and a delusion that they a mutant not a robot, decided to self-destruct when the first PC he runs into is not awe struck with wonder at him.... after checking what the blast radius the device was, decided on not wanting to lose Paris this early in the campaign told the player that he could not remember the authrisation code.

[Der Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

A type of player who lacks imagination and cannot think beyond his own unvarying ambitions and goals, which are exclusively concerned with gathering fighting power and killing things (basically treating a roleplaying game like a videogame: a simulation of killing things with cool power-ups) in ways which have little or no necessary relationship to the setting or mood of the campaign.

There. That's a munchkin.

So thats a munchkin, someone who only plays what he likes (ok its a single "role", but hey I'm Joe Average in real life, don't need to be him in RPG too)... Thats exactly the way most players start their career in the scene (some stay longer, say forever in that phase) but there is nothing Munchkinesk about it...
The only flaw is to force/let those people to play in a "Jane Austen Novel" as you put it earlier (maybe the group should discuss what sort of game they want to play, and "kick" this guy out (especially if he is a friend, honesty above all))...
Munshkin = I'm an alien, I'm a legal alien, I'm an Englishman in New York -Sting ;)

I had a phase where I thought that everybody who used dices for Diplomaty/Public Speaking/Fast Talking/etc. was no role player (until it dawned upon me that I also do not performe the acrobatics my hero does).
So claiming that this player "lacks imagination and cannot think beyond his own unvarying ambitions and goals" is just snobish thinking, forgetting what is most important about RPG, fun!!! And noone should be forced to play a role he does not like... 'cause thats no fun...

[Tom Kalbfus]

How about a person who plays in a World War II campaign, kills a few Germans and then rifles through their pockets looking for treasure?, he then kills some Germans in a Pillbox jumps inside slaps a German soldier around and demands to know where he keeps his treasure. Then he looks around fro secret doors, overturning furniture in a frantic effort to find treasure. When his superior officer demands that he turn over all the items that he's collected, the private says, "I didn't see you around when we killed all those krauts. I say whoever helps in the killing gets his fair share of the booty." Meanwhile the treasure hunt on the battlefield continues.

[Brandy]

Tom, I'm not getting the point of your last few posts. Is there one?

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Tom Kalbfus

When his superior officer demands that he turn over all the items that he's collected, the private says, "I didn't see you around when we killed all those krauts. I say whoever helps in the killing gets his fair share of the booty." Meanwhile the treasure hunt on the battlefield continues.

At which point the private is put under arrest, court martialed, and depending on the trial, either executed for insubordination in battle, or sent back to jail in Fort Leavenworth where he'll spend the next 10-20 years of his life.

Disobeying a direct order in that type of combat situation can also get the private shot, legally.