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Old 10-27-2009, 03:29 PM   #71
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by Mark Skarr View Post
It's supply and demand. The supply of writers is in demand for other projects that sell better.

You want adventures. Okay, so when I publish my adventure for the Eliminators ariving in Super San Diego and how the Super population has to react and deal with them, you'll buy it . . . because it's an adventure? Or are you looking for something a bit more specific?

Or how about the flash-point of the civil war for the Frontier Sector? Or the opening of the MegaAmusement Park in Las Vegas that's a sanctuary for the world's population of secret supers? Or traveling, on tour, with a teen-idol pop-singer who needs protection since a crime syndicate want to kidnap her because her previous manager never paid them what he said he would? You're looking for all of that, right?
yep, i want something specific. not some rare niche background material. as i frequently pointed out, a generic scenario for DF or maybe more specific material on an existing background that sells rather well (like Banestorm, THS).
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:32 PM   #72
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by PrinceYyrkoon View Post
But I could absolutely guarantee healthier sales if settings were supported by scenario packs. And I dont mean piddling about with a 10 page freebie, or insisting that the scenario ties in with outmoded adventure ideas such as interdimensional law enforcement. (Theres too much of that in my opinion).

No. Gurps needs a few archetypal campaign supplements. How does a prospective GM get to know how the system works if he never sees how adventures are organised, or how NPCs have their points spent? Or what fun features are possible with the Gurps combat system? Or what magical constructs can exist within a coherent fantasy world?
exactly, me too. i really agree here. campaigns are what make a setting come alive. the other stuff is just more or less boring background.
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:34 PM   #73
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by PrinceYyrkoon View Post
And actually, I'll say it, the idea that 'scenario books dont sell' is absolute nonsense.

Why is it, for instance that CoC supplements such as Horror on the Orient Express go for 500 on eBay? (Yup, Im a Brit!). Masks of Nyarlathotep is a scenario pack that made Chaosium and Call of Cthulhu. Shadows of Yog Sothoth is still in print after thirty years! Scenarios dont sell? Nonsense.
further proof: paizo and their pathfinder series. it may be d20 mainstream, but they started with (connected) scenarios and now they expand to a world and roleplaying game.
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:41 PM   #74
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by opposedToGravity View Post
about the limited time of the staff: if they give away some scenarios for free, it does not have to be top quality material
The official stance, as I understand it, is that quality is one of SJ Games's main selling points. Anything they put the SJ Games name on is going to be as high-quality as they can make it, and they're not going to do a half-assed job on something just to get it out there cheaply.

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Originally Posted by opposedToGravity View Post
but the key words of your reply are "on their own". that is what people who want to actually play Gurps are. on their own. and constantly ignoring this fact wont increase sales one bit.
You say "ignoring," I say "paying attention to the market." Part of this, of course, is the author issue. I'll reiterate yet again that they do want to publish adventures but so far can't get them under reasonable terms

Moreover, though, some people want more support: adventures and the like. Others want the toolkit books. Judging by what people actually spend their money on, more people want, in your words, to be left alone. They actually pay for the toolkits and use that to build their own stuff, not prepackaged adventures. Giving them what they want has historically been shown to keep up sales. When adventures are published, they have historically been shown not to sell as well. Now, SJ Games could go out of their way to try to produce more adventures (offer higher royalties to freelancers as an incentive, direct in-house talent to write adventures rather than whatever else they're doing). However, that means they're producing a batch of adventures, which history tells us is at best a risky choice and probably a bad financial decision (again, if that market for adventures was there, why have the ones available now sold so poorly?), while simultaneously not producing the toolkit books which are known to sell well, alienating the customers who have kept GURPS alive for something like 30 years. Can you see how that's maybe not such a good idea?
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:44 PM   #75
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
Because, as has been pointed out ad nauseum, they don't. When SJ Games publishes rule books, they sell well. When they publish adventures, they don't. But...
this only proofs that SJGs current mode of designing scenarios does not work well.

sjgs scenarios dont sell, but apparently other companies still publish and sell scenarios as if there is no tomorrow. what does this proof? that people dont like gurps scenarios? or that maybe they would like a different kind of scenario.

The problem might be that SJG seems to think that Gurps is something for the extraordinary. No standard fantasy stuff, but other genres. There seems to be error somewhere.

Take mystery. it is a nice book, but having to do all the work to actually play it is just not good enough. it is for reading, but not playing.
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:47 PM   #76
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Can you see how that's maybe not such a good idea?
No. Giving people what you think they want is a false economy. How do you know that they would prefer something else that they are not being given?

You advocate playing safe. This is death for an rpg company.
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:47 PM   #77
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

Or it could suggest that GURPS players, specifically, don't like adventures. Maybe players of other games like adventures.
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:49 PM   #78
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
The official stance, as I understand it, is that quality is one of SJ Games's main selling points. Anything they put the SJ Games name on is going to be as high-quality as they can make it, and they're not going to do a half-assed job on something just to get it out there cheaply.
yeah, i thought it and there is 4th magic in my shelf.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
You say "ignoring," I say "paying attention to the market." Part of this, of course, is the author issue. I'll reiterate yet again that they do want to publish adventures but so far can't get them under reasonable terms

Moreover, though, some people want more support: adventures and the like. Others want the toolkit books. Judging by what people actually spend their money on, more people want, in your words, to be left alone. They actually pay for the toolkits and use that to build their own stuff, not prepackaged adventures. Giving them what they want has historically been shown to keep up sales. When adventures are published, they have historically been shown not to sell as well. Now, SJ Games could go out of their way to try to produce more adventures (offer higher royalties to freelancers as an incentive, direct in-house talent to write adventures rather than whatever else they're doing). However, that means they're producing a batch of adventures, which history tells us is at best a risky choice and probably a bad financial decision (again, if that market for adventures was there, why have the ones available now sold so poorly?), while simultaneously not producing the toolkit books which are known to sell well, alienating the customers who have kept GURPS alive for something like 30 years. Can you see how that's maybe not such a good idea?
how did sales on the whole develop in the last 30 years? did they (in respect to the general tendency of the market) increase or decrease? if they increased, there is nothing wrong and sjg should stay on its current course with Gurps.
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:49 PM   #79
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by mikeejimbo View Post
Or it could suggest that GURPS players, specifically, don't like adventures. Maybe players of other games like adventures.

I would venture that these people who 'dont like adventures' are often the same people who buy other companies adventures.
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:50 PM   #80
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by opposedToGravity View Post
yep, i want something specific. not some rare niche background material. as i frequently pointed out, a generic scenario for DF or maybe more specific material on an existing background that sells rather well (like Banestorm, THS).
So...what about the GURPS: Locations publications, Lair of the Fat Man, and THS:Personnel Profiles 2-5? Singapore Sling and Polyhymnia if you don't mind 3e THS material? Are those not exactly what you want? They're out there.

And none of them have sold 500 copies (To be fair, Action 1 isn't much past that mark on e23). Tower of Octavius, the leader among the 4e products, has scarcely topped 300. Most of them don't even make e23's top 100.
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