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Old 10-27-2009, 07:00 PM   #161
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by opposedToGravity View Post
really? take a hotseller from e23. and do some pretty good scenarios. the scenarios should be so good in fact that people become interested in the setting and start playing it.
Well...Transhuman Space: Changing Times is the highest-selling 'worldbook' material on e23. And the Personnel Files, from their descriptions, may be about the closest you can get to pick-up-and-play for that.

There's Lands out of Time, which calls itself a setting at one point but sounds more like a genre book of sorts.

The next two distinct settings to have their materials appear are Infinite Worlds (Lost Worlds) and Tales of the Solar Patrol.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:02 PM   #162
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by Lord Carnifex View Post
1) What genre, and what generic or specific setting assumptions?

2) What TL?

3) Where on the gritty realism to four-color cinematic spectrum?

4) What CP level for PC's?
Tales of the Solar Patrol
  • It's science fiction, which
    • consistent sales of Spaceships etc. shows is popular with GURPS players
    • means it isn't trying to compete in the crowded fantasy market.
  • It's comparatively simple sci fi, which means that
    • there isn't a huge canon of worlds, history, and institutions to get across as with Traveller or Vorkosigan
    • it doesn't have the bewildering quality of radical hard SF. which left people wondering what to do with Transhuman Space
  • It's a SJ Games original setting with an extant setting book, which means
    • there will be no problems with licences and vetting by the IP owner
    • the best possible chance that it will be in a line that continues to attract support and generate continuing sales
    • the best chance of making rain in SJ Games's buckets.

What's more, if you write one, I'll write one.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:03 PM   #163
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by Brett View Post
The evidence is in the e23 "What's Hot" list. Which I will link again: http://e23.sjgames.com/hot.cgi?lmt=1...-10-27&ord=qty


Yes, world books sell, but not as well as genre books. And genre books don't sell as well as rule expansions. And rule expansions don't sell as well as gear books. And gear books don't sell as well as the basic set. Everyone wants the basic set, and the gear books overlap a lot of genres. But then the SF players don't buy Fantasy or Dungeon Fantasy or Supers, and the Interstellar Wars and Tales of the Solar Patrol players don't buy Transhuman Space. And only a few of the Transhuman Space players buy Singapore Sling.

And adventure is within a campaign scheme, and a campaign is within a setting, and a setting is within a genre, and a genre is only a fraction of the immensity of GURPS. Because GURPS covers a lot of genres, and each genre covers a lot of settings, and each setting covers a number of campaign schemes, each adventure is going to sell to only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the GURPS market, and only to the GMs within that.
i think you miss one point: a setting/genre doesnt only sell well and thats it. it sells still better when it is supported. and by that it grows.

lets take rule books that sell well: magic, thaumatology. maybe even martial arts.
lets take a fitting genre. DF. great seller.
lets take a world book that might make use of DF and those rule books: Banestorm (at least that expansion is on that list on e23)

and then start selling scenarios / campaigns in that setting. real cool stuff. a combination of dungeon crawl and puzzles / intrigue. maybe even throw in some mystery.

i bet that this is a winning thing. once the first few campaigns are out people might get interested and then the next campaigns will sell better.

maybe in this approach we wont have another 150 or so gurps books. but we will most likely have one stream of well supported material and more players. and besides, who needs most of the 150 books anyway?
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:06 PM   #164
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by Cybren View Post
That's... thats a joke of some kind



That kind of conjecture isn't really helpful, since the Carnifex can make wild guesses just like anyone else
everyone can do that. but only the gifted few can collect data and make a decision.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:07 PM   #165
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by Cybren View Post
http://e23.sjgames.com/hot.cgi

Which of these things would you give an adventure? You have to go third down the list to even get a genre book. seventh to get a setting book.
i would prefer fantasy because it appeals to the largest audience.
but considering the recent success and the rich development of THS i would also say that this is ok.
if THS is still printed.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:10 PM   #166
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by Brett View Post
Tales of the Solar Patrol
  • It's science fiction, which
    • consistent sales of Spaceships etc. shows is popular with GURPS players
    • means it isn't trying to compete in the crowded fantasy market.
  • It's comparatively simple sci fi, which means that
    • there isn't a huge canon of worlds, history, and institutions to get across as with Traveller or Vorkosigan
    • it doesn't have the bewildering quality of radical hard SF. which left people wondering what to do with Transhuman Space
  • It's a SJ Games original setting with an extant setting book, which means
    • there will be no problems with licences and vetting by the IP owner
    • the best possible chance that it will be in a line that continues to attract support and generate continuing sales
    • the best chance of making rain in SJ Games's buckets.

What's more, if you write one, I'll write one.
good argument. i dont own this supplement. i would advise against it because it is not available in any shelf in any store. this is a huge drawback.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:13 PM   #167
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by opposedToGravity View Post
everyone can do that. but only the gifted few can collect data and make a decision.
Well, there aren't any 'gifted few' handing out instructions on where to go with developing new adventures here, so I don't think that's going to help any.
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Originally Posted by opposedToGravity View Post
good argument. i dont own this supplement. i would advise against it because it is not available in any shelf in any store. this is a huge drawback.
Ok, the whole 'campaigning for massive outlays by SJG on new GURPS lines' is cute, but simultaneously trying to shut down the apparently successful e23 front is both misguided and hopeless.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:15 PM   #168
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

GURPS Fantasy isn't a setting, it's a genre toolkit. It's not even on the what's hot list!

GURPS Dungeon fantasy is likewise a genre book. For a much narrower genre. It is on the what's hot list, with a couple of entries.

But it's still a genre book that still leaves a fair amount of room for the GM and party. How do you write a standardized dungeon fantasy combat scene without knowing what race or class templates the party is made of? what fantasy setting is it in? If you decide that you want to support Dungeon Fantasy with a series of adventures will you have them all share the same implied setting? Create another special Dungeon Fantasy setting? Use Banestorm? Something else?
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:18 PM   #169
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
....Ok, the whole 'campaigning for massive outlays by SJG on new GURPS lines' is cute, but simultaneously trying to shut down the apparently successful e23 front is both misguided and hopeless.
His argument is not without merit. Tangibility is a marketable asset even if it is a misguided sentiment.

I think it might be best served if some one wrote an adventure using nothing but the Basic Set.

The genre itself is unimportant, but I think agreeing now that Getting an adventure to run with as few books as possible is one way to increase its appeal.

Nymdok
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:18 PM   #170
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
How is GURPS doing? Better than a lot of other gaming companies. GURPS is still going strong and is still being published. Every week we get a release. That is pretty good.



And here is the problem yet again. I am a GURPS player just like you. I am a GURPS customer just like you. And generic fantasy doesn't interest me. I wouldn't buy it. You might, but I wouldn't. What makes you think you carry more demographic weight than I do? When I look at all the GURPS I've played in, or run, never has it been generic fantasy. And this covers a lot of people. Extraordinary backgrounds is one of the selling points of GURPS, and a lot of people are drawn to GURPS for that reason.

I've published 2 articles in Pyramid. I've worked as a Lead Playtester. I'm a person who actually would write adventures for GURPS. But I would you telling me that you like generic fantasy is not going to make me write any generic fantasy adventures...because I don't like them. I like dramatist/simulationist sandbox things with difficult moral quandaries. The kind of thing I'd be interested in is not what you are advocating for. If you really think there is a market for the sort of adventures you like, then you need to write them and submit them. Because what I'd submit would not be what you want.

Because really you think you are saying:
GURPS should publish adventures.

but what you are really saying is:
GURPS should publish adventures that cater to my preferences.

That is unlikely to happen.
what i am saying is: sjg should publish gurps material for the biggest audience (of ALL gamers, not just their precious few) they can get.

like it or not, this is standard fantasy. always was, always will be.
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