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Old 10-27-2009, 05:17 PM   #121
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by Graham View Post
I've never been entirely happy with this argument. Even if most of what I play is gritty and realistic (say), if someone produced a supplement of ready-to-run cinematic material I'd be quite happy to pick it up to use for a change of tone.

Graham
Right! You understand that you bring some of that to the table when you agree to play GURPS. Your play style is GrittyRealisim? Then by play style you'll 'meet the material halfway.'

Generic is not the enemy here.

And there is absolutely NO reason to think that there must be ONE module to rule them all.

The nice thing about modules is that they're bite sized. YOu can have a Cinematic low-fantasy Conanish in one and a Gritty High Magic in another.

And then the next one is about space ships :)

Thats one of the reasons why we play this system right? :)

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p.s. 6 pages written in this thread today....thats 20% of a 30 page module.
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:20 PM   #122
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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sjgs scenarios dont sell, but apparently other companies still publish and sell scenarios as if there is no tomorrow. what does this proof? that people dont like gurps scenarios? or that maybe they would like a different kind of scenario.
Other companies (with the dubious exception of HERO Games) subsist on a game that is focussed on one genre; often only one setting, or at most half a dozen; and usually only one campaign schema. So if Chaosium (for instance) published an adventure in the horror genre, Lovecraftian subgenre, set on Earth in the late-1920s-or-early-1930s, which assumed that the player characters were a loose affiliation of inquisitive scholars and their associates in previous encounters with the Mythos, then Chaosium could be sure that most of their fanbase was potential market for that adventure.

That doesn't work for GURPS. Yesterday I gave you a list of 48 reasonably common but violently incompatible genre/subgenre/setting/schema combinations that people have mentioned using GURPS for, on these forums. And that was without dissecting out the different campaigns people are playing in Transhuman Space, and it left out GURPS Vorkosigan.
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:29 PM   #123
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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This espionage tale, set in the early 1980s, pits the heroes against each other as part of a multinational team called UNISTOMP. Can these super-spies trust each other and their cohorts' nations enough to save the world, protect their countries' secrets, and learn the truth about the Fat Man? GURPS Lair of the Fat Man is an oddball romp through super-spy cliches, in the style of 1960s espionage films that don't take themselves too seriously.
this is not what i play.
Bingo! Any possible adventure, 95% of GURPS players say "This is not what I play."
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:29 PM   #124
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

OpposedToGravity is actually asking the right question "why don't GURPS scenarios sell" and has been given some very reasonable answers in the posts above.

We're starting to go round in circles with this (and I'm going to have to bow out and head for bed soon on this side of the pond), so maybe we should shift the thread in a more positive direction.

Is there any way we can think of that might enable a full-length GURPS campaign book to be written to SJG's quality standards, that could serve as an entry point for new GURPS players?

Either as a commercial offering through SJG, in which case is there a way that it could be done profitably (e.g. in small stages, and by capturing an audience with some other promotion), or as a fan production maintaining the highest editorial quality (e.g. in a wiki with moderation and playtesting, and probably a lead designer)?

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Old 10-27-2009, 05:31 PM   #125
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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it appears to me that the current customers of Gurps are those who are with the system for at least a decade.
I took a look at Man to Man in '85, chose Justice, Inc. from HERO Games instead, and came to GURPS in 2005.
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:33 PM   #126
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Other companies (with the dubious exception of HERO Games) subsist on a game that is focussed on one genre; often only one setting, or at most half a dozen; and usually only one campaign schema. So if Chaosium (for instance) published an adventure in the horror genre, Lovecraftian subgenre, set on Earth in the late-1920s-or-early-1930s, which assumed that the player characters were a loose affiliation of inquisitive scholars and their associates in previous encounters with the Mythos, then Chaosium could be sure that most of their fanbase was potential market for that adventure.

That doesn't work for GURPS. Yesterday I gave you a list of 48 reasonably common but violently incompatible genre/subgenre/setting/schema combinations that people have mentioned using GURPS for, on these forums. And that was without dissecting out the different campaigns people are playing in Transhuman Space, and it left out GURPS Vorkosigan.
Again, the issue is simple. Less setting material, more adventure material.

And, actually, SW is a generic system (regardless of whether it is 'cinematic' or 'gritty', thats just the way it plays). It is as generic a system as Hero, BRP or even Gurps. Yet, the Plot Point Campaigns taking up more than half of the setting books are really popular. (Im not a fanboy of any system, I hasten to add, I can find problems in all of them equally!).

Why is Gurps a special case? Why wouldnt books such as Sundered Skies or Necessary Evil work for Gurps? The answer is, they would.

Everyone talks about settings being so varied, but they boil down to fantasy, scifi, modern, horror and alternate history, surely. There not that many genres with gaming possibilities.
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:35 PM   #127
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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it appears to me that the current customers of Gurps are those who are with the system for at least a decade.
For my one data-point worth, my forum registration date should be around when I first owned a GURPS book. A bit before, probably.
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:39 PM   #128
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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... Everyone talks about settings being so varied, but they boil down to fantasy, scifi, modern, horror and alternate history, surely. There not that many genres with gaming possibilities.
Wow! I dont even know how you could say that seriously.

Actually there are. And every player and GM likes theirs bestest in the whole wide world :)

The key point I think is to recognize that the Cybornetic Bunnies and Burrows Horror player is probably going to have cook up his own stuff. But the Fantasy Players, Infinte Worlds, and other major titles should have an adventure or two.

Let munchkin be your guide (in this case only). If there is a Munchkin Deck for it, there is probably a viable Genre for it.

Nymdok
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:39 PM   #129
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by Graham View Post
Is there any way we can think of that might enable a full-length GURPS campaign book to be written to SJG's quality standards, that could serve as an entry point for new GURPS players?

Graham

That would be the ideal exactly. I would say four or five books, one for each genre.
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:42 PM   #130
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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(regardless of whether it is 'cinematic' or 'gritty', thats just the way it plays).
Maybe, but it's a pretty huge difference. If SW is cinematic-only, it covers a lot less design space than GURPS.

I'd be tempted to buy a gritty modern espionage/action scenario, partly to see how it's done, if I noticed one on e23 (it sounds like there might be some 3e options for that). I have no desire to own Lair of the Fat Man. The difference is not one of basic genre...
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Everyone talks about settings being so varied, but they boil down to fantasy, scifi, modern, horror and alternate history, surely. There not that many genres with gaming possibilities.
Adventures don't fit into a game just by being in the right genre. THS and Star Trek are not exactly interchangeable, you know?


Your overall ideas may be good. I don't know what'll work in the marketplace. But oversimplifying isn't wise.
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