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Old 10-27-2009, 04:08 PM   #91
PrinceYyrkoon
 
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

To mickeejimbo and Graham

If it is the case that Gurps players dont like adventures or that there are lots available already, why then, are scenario supplements high on the wishlist?

The stuff you mentioned is either magazine material or a lot of it is oop.

No one is saying that Gurps doesnt have scenario material. A lot of it is pretty old or out of date though, or hidden in back issues of magazines.

Scenario material is the lifeblood of settings. Often, SJG concentrates on new settings, and they hardly ever stop to develop the ones they already have. Many setting books languish in a kind of purgatory with little love. Really worthy maaterial is probably sitting there, desparate to be fleshed out with a living, breathing campaign.

I say, less setting books, more TLC for those already there.
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Old 10-27-2009, 04:09 PM   #92
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by opposedToGravity View Post
are these real scenarios? looks like npc collections to me.
Each Personnel Files pdf has a set of characters that can be used as NPCs or as pre-generated PCs for the sample adventure included in the supplement. These are all good stuff, particularly #3 Wild Justice. There are also additional adventure seeds.

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Old 10-27-2009, 04:12 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Gigermann View Post
There's a lot of back-and-forth about D&D scenarios selling, and GURPS scenarios not selling—pretty obvious that both statements are true. So, perhaps a more constructive enquiry would be why? Is it really that the GURPS adventures are poor quality?—I doubt that; SJG has been pretty consistent over the years about putting out quality material. But when some wet-behind-the-ears GM-wannabe decides he wants to run next week, and needs some pre-fab material, why go to D&D instead of GURPS (excepting system bias)? Why is there a discussion here about converting D&D modules to GURPS in the first place?
good post.
and you almost exactly described my situation. i am GM, i would like to run a game at least every other week, better every week. i have real life things like family and work. so, the easiest thing is: pick some prefab material, read it through in the train or before sleep and then run it. Some prefab things are good, some are bad. doesnt matter too much, we have fun anyway.

why d&d? because there are enough fantasy prefabs available. and no matter what people here might say, i actually like most of their material. i like to play standard fantasy stuff.
it needs a little change here and there, but it is ok. (not talking about 4th edition though, havent bought any material yet, ppl say it is rather boring stuff). and it has ready-to-use opponents. open the manual and pick some critter. there you go.
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Old 10-27-2009, 04:13 PM   #94
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by opposedToGravity View Post
are these real scenarios? looks like npc collections to me.
I don't own any of them, but every single one of them describes itself as containing information on using it. The Personnel files, on a cursory glance, are explicitly intended to provide an 'quickstart' into THS, and they're on Graham's list above. The Locations both contain extensive maps...from the description, they may not contain a scenario so much as a detailed location with stubs for several possible scenarios. Making them only an almost perfect match.
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Originally Posted by opposedToGravity View Post
this is not what i play. maybe something with a broad audience might be a good idea. (and again) this could be fantasy because most gamers like it.
Well...that's nice. Other than demo-ing the problems at hand, what about the others, which appear to be in genres you've already professed interest in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceYyrkoon View Post
To mickeejimbo and Graham

If it is the case that Gurps players dont like adventures or that there are lots available already, why then, are scenario supplements high on the wishlist?

The stuff you mentioned is either magazine material or a lot of it is oop.
You know, that'd fly better if Graham's list hadn't been of things available on e23.
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Old 10-27-2009, 04:14 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by PrinceYyrkoon View Post
To mickeejimbo and Graham

If it is the case that Gurps players dont like adventures or that there are lots available already, why then, are scenario supplements high on the wishlist
I don't know, I'm no businessman. Maybe you're right. But if you are right, that GURPS needs good adventures, possibly, as you're implying, ones that would sell better than the ones out there, what qualities should they have?

In fact, why don't you write them? You're totally allowed to.
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Old 10-27-2009, 04:16 PM   #96
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceYyrkoon View Post
To mickeejimbo and Graham

If it is the case that Gurps players dont like adventures or that there are lots available already, why then, are scenario supplements high on the wishlist?
Because even the old hands want more new adventures. That doesn't make them any more profitable for the individual authors writing them. Which has now been pointed out so many times that it's getting silly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceYyrkoon View Post

The stuff you mentioned is either magazine material or a lot of it is oop.

No one is saying that Gurps doesnt have scenario material. A lot of it is pretty old or out of date though, or hidden in back issues of magazines.
Very few of the adventures in the list are magazine material, and all of it is available now on e23 (being out of print in the games stores is a whole other discussion). The majority of those adventures are full length (say between 15 and 30 pages).

How do (most) adventures get 'out of date'?

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Old 10-27-2009, 04:20 PM   #97
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by opposedToGravity View Post
are these real scenarios? looks like npc collections to me.

this is not what i play. maybe something with a broad audience might be a good idea. (and again) this could be fantasy because most gamers like it.
And here is the problem with GURPS adventure. There are adventures out there, but you don't like them, you don't like the genre. You say "most gamers like fantasy." Except to most GURPS gamers like fantasy? There are some fine GURPS fantasy adventures out there...and they aren't number 1 on the e23 sales list. So...it doesn't seem like your argument "if you make it, they will come" seems to wash...because people are not buying the fantasy adventures that are on e23 at the moment.

Now, give me a month or two to free up some time, and I'd be very interested in writing a Paizo style longer campaign. But I'm not going submit it to SJG because I'm not thrilled with the mandatory adventure template. But also, I doubt you've be interested in buying it, because it wouldn't be Fantasy it would probably be Noir Detectives. And in the unlikelihood that I did decide to make a Fantasy campaign, it probably wouldn't match your idea of fantasy. It would be TL4 rather than TL3 and wouldn't really involve dungeons. So then you wouldn't be interested in it, nor would you buy it, then you'd continue to complain that there are no adventures.

And here is the problem.

D&D has one paradigm. As does CoC and WoD. But GURPS has an infinite number of worlds. Heck you take one genre: Fantasy, and even in that one genre, GURPS handles a wide array of versions of Fantasy, not all of which are going to be served by the same adventures. My first campaign was a no-Magic gritty Fantasy world with no dungeons. Would an adventure crafted for that world serve your campaign? Probably not. And you wouldn't buy it, and you'd still complain. A high magic dungeon fantasy adventure? Might fit your campaign, but wouldn't fit mine.

None of this speaks well for adventure sales.
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Old 10-27-2009, 04:23 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Well...that's nice. Other than demo-ing the problems at hand, what about the others, which appear to be in genres you've already professed interest in?
then it gets rather slim:
fantasy: Fantasy: Fighters of the Purple Rage
Fantasy: Harkwood
Fantasy: Lost Inheritance
Fantasy: Mordag's Little Finger
Fantasy: Sahudese Fire Drill
and the Caravan.

Of these i have only Caravan. because it was included in 3rd edition basic set.
i remember fantasy adventures. it was a very long time ago. and it says it is out of print. i do not remember why i have not bought it that long time ago (must have been sometime after i got my 3rd edition basic set). of Harkwood i have never heard before. books that are out of print for years dont exactly count as available material.

The THS stuff: that was new. as soon as i see it in my friendly local game store, i will buy it.
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Old 10-27-2009, 04:27 PM   #99
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeejimbo View Post
I don't know, I'm no businessman. Maybe you're right. But if you are right, that GURPS needs good adventures, possibly, as you're implying, ones that would sell better than the ones out there, what qualities should they have?

In fact, why don't you write them? You're totally allowed to.
:) Im trying to get other people to write them for me! :)

I think they should just be well written and interesting. Can you imagine the pitch for something like Sundered Skies or whatever? It doesnt have to be 'cookie cutter fantasy world'. It could be something novel.

As far as something for sci fi is concerned, well, you dont have to be world spanning. For example, players could search for an ancient abandoned temple complex on a desolate world where it rains constantly. Only to find that a race of hostile aliens is searching the ruins for the same artifact. I dont know, thats just off the top of my head. But that kind of scenario is surely 'generic' enough for lots of Gurps players to be able to adapt to their own campaigns succesfully. Could even be converted to a purely fantasy environment.

I think it just takes a little planning. There is obviously a real need for scenario material, and maybe less need for more settings books?
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Old 10-27-2009, 04:29 PM   #100
Graham
 
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

Quote:
Originally Posted by opposedToGravity View Post
... books that are out of print for years dont exactly count as available material.

The THS stuff: that was new. as soon as i see it in my friendly local game store, i will buy it.
I know this seems silly but I have to ask. Are you aware that you can buy these things online at e23.sjgames.com and print them out?

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