Poll: Hit mechanics

[vicky_molokh]

On a purely emotional/æsthetic level, I prefer 2, then 3, and only then 1. I prefer Afflocks over Destros, and am typically bored by wands. :)

Also, 2 means that at a cost of 4/level I can overcome enemy DR levels (I'm assuming that 1d is the max damage I may have). If all else fails, I'll aim at the eyes, which typically have no DR; in a fantasy campaign, they're unlikely to have more than a level or two of DR. (OTOH if we're talking TL9 technomagical battlesuit troopers, then any variant is useless on the battlefield anyway.)

[Bruno]

The Rule of 16 is not a "magic" rule strictly, it relates to all "supernatural" attacks resolved as quick contests. Basic page 349.

I can't think of many attacks resolved as quick contests outside of grappling... but there's enough of them floating around in grappling that the restriction is important.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

On a purely emotional/æsthetic level, I prefer 2, then 3, and only then 1. I prefer Afflocks over Destros, and am typically bored by wands. :)

Also, 2 means that at a cost of 4/level I can overcome enemy DR levels (I'm assuming that 1d is the max damage I may have). If all else fails, I'll aim at the eyes, which typically have no DR; in a fantasy campaign, they're unlikely to have more than a level or two of DR. (OTOH if we're talking TL9 technomagical battlesuit troopers, then any variant is useless on the battlefield anyway.)

Right - if I can buy up the damage, 1 and 3 are way better than 2, because 2 gives +1 to DR penetration for 4 points, while 1 gives +6 to max DR penetration for 5 points (base).

EDIT: There's an important caveat to the Rule of 16, now that I see it again. It's not just 'limited to 16', it's 'limited to 16 or the defender's actual resistance, whichever is higher'. That's an important distinction - it means that you can still use higher skill to penetrate higher resistance.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Langy

Right - if I can buy up the damage, 1 and 3 are way better than 2, because 2 gives +1 to DR penetration for 4 points, while 1 gives +6 to max DR penetration for 5 points (base).

EDIT: There's an important caveat to the Rule of 16, now that I see it again. It's not just 'limited to 16', it's 'limited to 16 or the defender's actual resistance, whichever is higher'. That's an important distinction - it means that you can still use higher skill to penetrate higher resistance.

It means you're effectively hitcapped at roughly 50% assuming both of you have modified scores above 16 (and the attacker's score is higher). Not all that bad if mooks can't penetrate this enemy's DR at all.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

It means you're effectively hitcapped at roughly 50% assuming both of you have modified scores above 16 (and the attacker's score is higher).

True - but that's not nearly as bad as 'completely unable to deal damage ever', which is what happens if the opponent has DR6+ in either of the other two examples.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Bruno

The Rule of 16 is not a "magic" rule strictly, it relates to all "supernatural" attacks resolved as quick contests. Basic page 349.

My apologies. I am, of course, most familiar with it in the context of mages, and so just assumed it was a Magic-only thing. Should have checked my books.

Originally Posted by Langy

EDIT: There's an important caveat to the Rule of 16, now that I see it again. It's not just 'limited to 16', it's 'limited to 16 or the defender's actual resistance, whichever is higher'. That's an important distinction - it means that you can still use higher skill to penetrate higher resistance.

True, but in my experience HT over 15 is pretty rare. It can happen, but not usually enough to justify all that extra skill (When I purchase extra skill, it's usually for other reasons, or when paired with that perk that increase the rule of 16 to higher levels).

[Anthony]

Okay, 1 is not directly comparable because dodge scores and HT scores aren't really linked. Of the remaining, 2 is usually superior to 3, the reduction in hit probability for +1 target defense is usually less significant than the reduction in average damage from +1 target DR, and the exceptions tend to involve situations where the defender is vastly superior and neither attack will accomplish much.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

True, but in my experience HT over 15 is pretty rare. It can happen, but not usually enough to justify all that extra skill (When I purchase extra skill, it's usually for other reasons, or when paired with that perk that increase the rule of 16 to higher levels).

On the other hand, Ability #2 uses HT + DR as the resistance attribute (but bypasses DR automagically if successful). HT+DR on a given location can break 15, with only modest HT and not terribly-unusual mundane armor even.

HT 11, Fit (for +1), and DR 5 from heavy scale or light plate and you're already at 17 and encountering Rule of 16 - and probably want to take a shot at a limb or neck/face to hit for (hopefully) lower DR and perhaps some extra effects.

Outside of that (for example, setting fire to unarmored peasants while cackling like an evil wizard should) your skill over 16 is mostly for soaking range/hitlocation penalties.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Bruno

On the other hand, Ability #2 uses HT + DR as the resistance attribute (but bypasses DR automagically if successful). HT+DR on a given location can break 15, with only modest HT and not terribly-unusual mundane armor even.

Hmmmmm.... that's an excellent point, and further enhances the use of high skill levels. It might be a little complicated for a player to remember HT + DR (since HT is on his sheet and HT + DR requires a bit of mental arithmetic, albeit very simple arithmetic), but I see this as further reason for using 2 over 3. I still prefer 1, though. It seems simple, straightforward, and easily modeled by a basic Innate Attack.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Bruno

HT 11, Fit (for +1), and DR 5 from heavy scale or light plate and you're already at 17 and encountering Rule of 16

This seems like a fair way to show why b is better than c. Let's say the attacker has a skill (as modified by range) of 15.

In situation b, resistance roll is 17. Hit probability is 28%, average damage per hit is 3.5, so average is 0.98 hp of damage.

In situation c, resistance roll is 12. Hit probability is 72%, but only 1/6 of attacks penetrate DR for 1 point of damage, so average is 0.12 hp of damage.