Poll: Hit mechanics

[Bruno]

Here are three reference abilities. How would you order them, going from "most desirable" to "least desirable"?

1. Roll a standard ranged attack against the target using Innate Attack; you may target specific hit locations. The target may Dodge or Block to evade the attack. If you succeed your attack roll and the target fails his defense roll or does not get a defense (due to surprise, attack from behind, etc), roll 1d burning damage and apply it to the targets DR on the hit location as "normal".

2. Roll a quick contest with the target - your Innate Attack vs the Target's HT. Your Innate Attack skill takes a penalty based on range (from the Speed/Range table); you may chose a hit location. The target takes a bonus equal to his DR on that hit location. If you win the quick contest, roll 1d burning damage and apply it to the target, bypassing DR but otherwise as normal.

3. Roll a quick contest with the target - your Innate Attack vs the Target's HT. Your Innate Attack skill takes a penalty based on range (from the Speed/Range table); you may chose a hit location. If you win the quick contest, roll 1d burning damage and apply it to the targets DR on the hit location as "normal".

I encourage you to share your reasoning ("I hate active defenses" is just as interesting and useful a reason as "I've done a statistical analysis and determined...")

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Here are three reference abilities. How would you order them, going from "most desirable" to "least desirable"?

1. Roll a standard ranged attack against the target using Innate Attack; you may target specific hit locations. The target may Dodge or Block to evade the attack. If you succeed your attack roll and the target fails his defense roll or does not get a defense (due to surprise, attack from behind, etc), roll 1d burning damage and apply it to the targets DR on the hit location as "normal".

2. Roll a quick contest with the target - your Innate Attack vs the Target's HT. Your Innate Attack skill takes a penalty based on range (from the Speed/Range table); you may chose a hit location. The target takes a bonus equal to his DR on that hit location. If you win the quick contest, roll 1d burning damage and apply it to the target, bypassing DR but otherwise as normal.

3. Roll a quick contest with the target - your Innate Attack vs the Target's HT. Your Innate Attack skill takes a penalty based on range (from the Speed/Range table); you may chose a hit location. If you win the quick contest, roll 1d burning damage and apply it to the targets DR on the hit location as "normal".

I encourage you to share your reasoning ("I hate active defenses" is just as interesting and useful a reason as "I've done a statistical analysis and determined...")

I'm going to straightforwardly pick 1, and dismiss 2 and 3, because the idea that whether you hit the target depends on a Quick Contest vs. Health just totally makes no sense to me. It seems either to conflate two different variables ("how good a shot am I?" and "can the target take it?") or to dismiss accuracy of fire. That is, it's a step away from physical and narrative realism.

I'm fine with a Quick Contest vs. Health if it's a resistance roll. But resistance rolls are used precisely in cases where there's no "targeting" or "aiming" going on—where you can affect your foe if you can perceive them. And you don't use Innate Attack, or any ranged attack skill, in that case.

In other words, 2 and 3 are not intuitive for me.

Bill Stoddard

[Bruno]

If you prefer for the question, substitute DX - although the unwritten context was actually comparing throwing a fireball vs some sort of magical ability that applies fire directly to the subject so "resistance roll" was what was going on in my head.

I probably should have mentioned that...

[Langy]

I'd go with 1, 3, then 2.

2 looks like it might be useful, until you realize that DR+HT is going to completely outstrip your Skill-Range Penalties. It basically makes it impossible to damage anyone with a decent amount of armor.

EDIT: Though that's really only a complaint when the damage is greater than 1d, I suppose. At that low of damage, even low amounts of armor make a normal attack do 0 damage. I suppose that moves 2 up to the front; once you get to dealing higher amounts of damage, it moves down to last place, though.

[Kuroshima]

Knowing a little of what's behind the question biases me ;)

Anyway, personally, I prefer 3, when 2, then 1. The reason? Block can be quite high, and you can't use prediction shots to negate block, meaning that a character with a shield will hose you. The issue with 2 is that stat+DR can put you in the realm of the rule of 16 SO fast that you do not pass go, and do not collect $2000.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Knowing a little of what's behind the question biases me ;)

Anyway, personally, I prefer 3, when 2, then 1. The reason? Block can be quite high, and you can't use prediction shots to negate block, meaning that a character with a shield will hose you. The issue with 2 is that stat+DR can put you in the realm of the rule of 16 SO fast that you do not pass go, and do not collect $2000.

I have no idea what you mean by the 'rule of 16' issue. What's the problem?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Bruno

If you prefer for the question, substitute DX - although the unwritten context was actually comparing throwing a fireball vs some sort of magical ability that applies fire directly to the subject so "resistance roll" was what was going on in my head.

Well, those are two different cases for two different types of attack. I'm fine if you want to say, "I have a spell that I cast on a named person that wills fire to appear around that person." But it's not a Fireball spell, and I wouldn't involve either Innate Attack or DX; I would make it something like Will vs. HT.

Bill Stoddard

[Langy]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Well, those are two different cases for two different types of attack. I'm fine if you want to say, "I have a spell that I cast on a named person that wills fire to appear around that person." But it's not a Fireball spell, and I wouldn't involve either Innate Attack or DX; I would make it something like Will vs. HT.

Bill Stoddard

The actual skill or attribute used here is completely secondary, Bill. It has nothing at all to do with the question. If you want, assume the 'innate attack' skill in the second two abilities is an IQ or Will-based spell skill.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Langy

I have no idea what you mean by the 'rule of 16' issue. What's the problem?

Magic spells treat skills of 16 or higher as 16 for the purposes of resistance. So having a skill of 20 isn't so great when it comes to beating someone's HT. I'm not sure that would necessarily be the case here, though. It's just unique to magic spells, isn't it?

Personally, I think it's easier to raise HT than it is to raise one's dodge (and block is powerful but situational: Not everyone carries a shield), so I think 1 is potentially the most powerful, followed by 3. 2 seems to be everything 3 is, but with DR added on.

That assumes you're asking "Which one do you want?" If it comes down to which I would rather see in my game, I'd probably go with 1, followed by 2.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Magic spells treat skills of 16 or higher as 16 for the purposes of resistance. So having a skill of 20 isn't so great when it comes to beating someone's HT. I'm not sure that would necessarily be the case here, though. It's just unique to magic spells, isn't it?

Oh, well that's stupid. And yeah, I'm pretty sure it's restricted to magic - I don't use the normal magic system, and I haven't encountered anything like that in the Powers system.

Personally, I think it's easier to raise HT than it is to raise one's dodge (and block is powerful but situational: Not everyone carries a shield), so I think 1 is potentially the most powerful, followed by 3. 2 seems to be everything 3 is, but with DR added on.

2 allows you to deal more actual damage to a target if your skill level is high enough, which is why I moved it to the top space. Makes it so someone with DR6 isn't completely immune to your attacks, and there might even be a pretty decent chance of damaging him if your skill is 20+.